Has Florida Politics Taken a Dark Turn? Discover the Shocking Truth About Eroding Ethics Laws!

[00:00:01] Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike On Mic, a conversation about politics, government and jacks of bill. With 50 year opinion leaders Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert, an award-winning broadcaster and long time political observer, Mike Miller. Welcome to the second year of the Mike Sound Mike podcast.

[00:00:21] Thanks to everyone who's made this first year so much fun. The great guests who've provided very important insight into the issues affecting our community. Of course, my two colleagues and very good friends, Mike Hightower and Mike Tolbert who

[00:00:34] generously shared their experience in politics and also, especially our friend Dr. Alan Bliss of the Jacksonville History Center for his generosity and his support of this podcast. But the three of us, Mike Sound Mike is a labor of love and we feel an important resource

[00:00:54] for you as we navigate what can only be described as the interesting times in our city, our state and our nation. And with so much history being made in real, real time, we begin our second season with the incomparable Nate Monroe who's Syrian commentary and the Times.

[00:01:12] Like that's Syrian commentary. I like that kind of Syrian commentary. In the Times Union continues to keep us on top of the news that we need to know. Nate is a three-time Mike Sound Mike guest and we have a lot to cover here today.

[00:01:25] So we'll begin as usual with our first question from Mr. Tolbert. They welcome back to Mike's own Mike. It's good to see you. Yeah, like what? Recently, a lot of us had a temporary scare because the rumor got out that you were leaving the Times Union.

[00:01:39] It turns out there's not true. You just have a new assignment. Tell us what your new assignment is and why the change happens. Yeah, so I am probably better understood now as a columnist for the USA today network in Florida.

[00:01:56] So my columns now run in all of the USA today affiliated papers in Florida at the Times Union is obviously one of them. But you know, the Sarah Soda-Harrell Tribune and the Palm Beach Post and O'Cala and Jamesville and Pensacola and on and on.

[00:02:18] And yeah, I write about statewide topics now that has a, that's kind of a broad umbrella of things that doesn't just mean I'm going to be writing about the legislature every day. There could be interesting things happening in different corners of the state that catch my attention.

[00:02:35] What do I, there are only in session two months out of the year? Right. Right. Get to us two more term. Right. Yeah. I want you to worry about. Right. And the summer is kind of in a choreyously slow time, although it doesn't feel like that in

[00:02:51] this and in this current climate. So yeah, it's not that I'm excited about. I pursued this change. I've been at the Times Union for October, will be 11 years and that's just a long time to be writing about City Hall.

[00:03:10] I was ready to get something kind of fresh, you know, in a little bit of a new assignment and a new charge. And so it was just kind of time for a bit of a change. So I was really happy there was an opportunity to do that.

[00:03:24] So pretty simple story. Well, me, welcome back. I let's just say the right thing. I know these come ever replace you locally. We know that after 11 years, quite a resume and some unbelievable stories which I think we're going to talk about shortly.

[00:03:44] But now, what your focus at statewide, who's going to be looking after the foxes in the hand house here locally? You know, I mean, I still like my colleagues, you know, David Bauerline has been the paper for a long time.

[00:04:00] He is like two or three of me at the paper and Steve Patterson and Mark Woods are still there. We have, you know, other colleagues covering City Hall, covering business. And, you know, look, I mean, I still live in Jacksonville, right?

[00:04:16] So if somebody were to screw up with sufficient stakes involved, I'm sure I could find the time to write about it myself. I really basically just means that I don't want to be writing about like the downtown investment authority anymore.

[00:04:32] I don't know, week to week basis, that's something I'm sort of looking forward to not doing. What if they do something? They'd have to do something very big. Something more than opening a water fountain. It's a child's fan. To get to write about it.

[00:04:49] I know, I do not anticipate any issues with the DIA popping up on my radar. Not necessarily in the foreseeable future. Right. You're going to miss that, though? I mean, I'm sure I will aspects of it. That's far. I mean, it's been a pretty fun change.

[00:05:14] I did some state stuff with my column before. I always enjoyed it and we felt like there was an audience for that. This is really just doing more of that. It doesn't feel like a huge change for me to be honest.

[00:05:28] Earlier this month, you wrote that many of the 180 new laws that were passed in sign recently by Governor DeSantis would make Florida in your opinion, and I loved it, meaner and more dangerous.

[00:05:41] The quote from the piece for those of you who have not read it yet, Florida is less safe for workers, less culturally rich, more corrupt and less free, a sun-baked place where kids can work long hours and local governments can protect workers from record setting heat. Cannot.

[00:05:58] I should say protect workers from records that need. Where cops get to the police on their, get to police their own conduct with the C-reclam cities while the state of airbrushes climate change out of its statuers.

[00:06:12] From that point of view, are these things that are still important and are these things that you're going to be covering in your state columns? Yeah, I mean those are all topics. I, you know, what precipitated that column was the, a lot not all, but most of the

[00:06:29] laws that legislate your past and the governor's sign took effect a couple of weeks ago. So that gave rise to a reason to kind of revisit the last legislative session and to kind of recap for people, the amount of really, really, really terrible things that these people

[00:06:46] can do in a very short amount of time. It's actually pretty remarkable. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, a through line through a lot of that legislation is the legislature has been very keen on eroding what's called home rule.

[00:07:04] The idea that cities get to govern themselves, that communities get to decide what's best for them. This is a concept that help make Florida a modern state. But it is a, it's something that the governor and the legislature both, I look for opportunities to roll back.

[00:07:23] The state government has been gradually centralizing more and more power into it. And so that takes the form of something like, yeah, eliminating the ability of cities to require private employers to have a minimum number of water breaks from employees who work outside.

[00:07:43] That's not only a very cruel and weird thing to do. It also has the effect of taking autonomy away from a local community. And you see that a lot in these, a lot of these bills in every session, the issue of

[00:07:57] home rule is kind of floating in the background. I think many people might say that this is very counterintuitive from what the norm has been as far as the Republican Party is concerned. And yet obviously they're looking to do even more in the next year and already looking

[00:08:18] for whoever's going to replace DeSantis and see if DeSantis is going to continue or whoever is going to continue to send us as move towards this erosion, if you will, of home rule, especially in education, which I think has probably been the most visible that we've seen.

[00:08:34] Yes, I mean, this kind of right wing era in Florida has given rise to this kind of rhetoric about you know, well, we like parental rights as long as you agree with us, you know, we love

[00:08:47] you know, government closest to the people is the best except when we decide it's not. You know, that's very much the kind of attitude here. Some might call it hypocritical. You know, one place that's in the United is the way they've got it at LeXelos and taken

[00:09:06] and taken power away from locality, local governments, to police or old people. Yeah, and that's got to have an eroding effect all over the state. I know, and as you know, very well,

[00:09:19] Carla Miller got on to the J.E.A. Mass like a dog and a pig on a bone. You know, she hadn't been to Naseus, no telling where that might have gone. No matter what you did.

[00:09:32] And I'm wondering, what is going to go, what will go wrong now in Jacksonville when it comes to ethics violations? Well, anything happened? You know, we got, and let me go back

[00:09:46] and we're going to head to that. One of the things I keep thinking about is, members of the city council who run non-profits, who then give themselves money, laid at night. I mean, that's,

[00:10:01] and that's got to go on check, sounds like. To be fair, and that was going on unchecked before hand to. So it's only going to be exacerbated then you're like, yeah, I mean, this is not a,

[00:10:16] yeah, the lack of a lack of account does it. Right. I mean, this is not a good development. So yeah, one of the laws, this actually doesn't take effect until October all that I don't think it functionally

[00:10:26] matters all that much. Yeah. So one of these new laws, it doesn't technically eliminate the ability of cities and counties to have local ethics commissions, but it very significantly hamstrings those commissions in terms of what they can investigate and how they can do it.

[00:10:47] Right now, local commissions have the power if they choose to initiate their own investigations. If an ethics director saw something in the newspaper or in a television report some potentially unethical behavior, they could initiate an investigation. They could start it.

[00:11:06] This law would end that and practice on the local level and the state ethics commission already cannot do this. But going forward, the only thing that can prompt an ethics investigation is a signed sworn affidavit from someone who possesses the quote personal

[00:11:30] knowledge and quote of a potential violation that there's sound like pretty anodine words and it doesn't sound like a big change, but it's it's a significant change requiring personal knowledge

[00:11:43] of a violation is I mean, I'm not even sure how that's going to work. I mean, as a lot of people being kind of quoted using a variation of this argument that when a politician commits an ethics

[00:11:57] violation, they don't like invite somebody and to come watch him do it. You know, often the only person with personal knowledge of a violation is the vile ear so I mean there is a concern that this will

[00:12:08] effectively end the practice of ethics investigations in the state of Florida. Well, to pick up on that then, so what you're really doing is I would think then they've got to be the possibility for a legitimate whistleblowers. Yes, I mean this new law also requires complaints

[00:12:31] to be signed so there is no more anonymous, an anonymous complaint cannot launch an investigation that can't drop a dime as they used to say. Right. So your name will become part of the public

[00:12:43] record eventually if you do file a complaint and that's not the way it is now. I mean, the Jacksonville ethics commission can take in anonymous complaints. They don't always lead to a lot of investigations but that option is there and I think in my amy and palm

[00:13:01] beach or some of the other sort of significant places that have these commissions that are going to be really changed going forward. If you heard anything as to what motivated this change, is there anything that's specifically that happened or any particular legislator that

[00:13:18] got wrongfully charged or something like that where this bill may have come out of? I have heard no specific reason for this. I know that various legislators and the governor's office have been frustrated with the state ethics commission at times but there wasn't like

[00:13:38] as far as I know there's not a backstory floating around about a Danny Burgess as a state senator who proposed these changes to a much larger ethics bill. He brought these changes to the floor

[00:13:52] at the very last minute so there was not even a lot of debate on any of this. I'm not aware of any kind of specific thing and you know what we have as rationalizations for it which were

[00:14:04] frankly not very compelling. There's certainly not a public alchryte. No in handing this just happens. There's not and I'll add that unfortunately there's also not a public alchryte demanding that this be changed back, right? That's been another theme of this era and for the government.

[00:14:26] I mean there are a lot of really sweeping significant things happening in education in public employment and really affecting people's lives and the stuff is just kind of coming and going and it doesn't seem like there's nothing that's really galvanizing public attention.

[00:14:47] Well Nate I have to ask the question, my sense is like you're doing a assignment. If I look back to when Calvert and I were back during or when I was in the legislature you know almost every city had a reporter who was doing state and local.

[00:15:06] I got to believe that the decimation of local reporters are just the median general has now allowed no one to bring this up so you can't really get public outrage if the public doesn't know it until

[00:15:24] all of a sudden it hits some like a 2x4 so when you I would imagine that's part of this. Yeah I mean part of what does appealed to me about this is that at least I found on a local

[00:15:37] level here in the city my column I felt like was at times a good tool to help maybe focus public attention a little bit on issues that I thought might be important it was kind of a way

[00:15:50] for me to sort of raise a little flag and say hey I think you know maybe we should look at this and I think that's just because you know columns are obviously different than news stories I get to

[00:16:02] I you know do my own reporting and and and like to bring some enterprise to it but I also get to mix my perspective in and I think that that allows for a content that people find

[00:16:17] a little bit more approachable maybe than a new story and so it it I think it helps I think it helps bring otherwise pretty complicated and uninteresting government issues to people's attention

[00:16:31] Yeah when you when you write some of these columns in the state level now what kind of feedback do you get from the governor's office and from the legislature? I mean I think this is a pretty

[00:16:42] typical experience for a journalist in Florida now I mean you don't really hear from the governor's office or these legislators I mean I think they think they don't need the media and don't really care

[00:16:54] I was going to say I thought that there'd be a number of people in Jacksonville who might be breathing a sigh of relief that you're not going to be on top of the city on a daily basis

[00:17:04] and feel as though they're going to get it's gonna slide a little bit and the reporters that you talked about I mean with our line of Patterson and Mark and all the others they're all great journalists

[00:17:17] but they're not analysts and they're not well-mark as a commentator but not in the same vein as you were he's more of an observationalist than he is a commentator and I just I wonder is

[00:17:28] a former member of the traditional media just who is going to be there it's going to be holding these people accountable and uncovering those you know those shady things that are going on

[00:17:42] that people think they can get away with yeah I mean certainly the future of local media is going to continue to be a kind of big question mark I mean this would be true whether I was still

[00:17:55] on the city government being or not you know I think you're right yeah I mean there there are changes coming in local media and that's not saying that with like specific knowledge of anything

[00:18:06] it's just common sense and you know I am somebody that is not an optimist by nature probably regular readers can into it that on their own but yeah I have lots of concerns about you know who is

[00:18:23] going to be watching these people on a local level and that's true in Jacksonville and it's true in every little university in America yeah I'm sure that's very true and not just in the printed history either but obviously we're seeing it in broadcast industry I mean with Jim

[00:18:36] Pickett gone I think that that to me was the biggest loss that we've seen in television journalism in this town in a long time Jim Jim and and I will also give credit to Frank Powers who who also

[00:18:50] written for my first order when it's on radio yeah just did a ton behind the scenes that that wasn't always visible to people but you know was a really big loss for channel 4 and Roger

[00:19:00] Weeter was another one that recently returned we've had a lot of that we've had a lot of that two more troubling examples of the idea of accountability which which I wanted to bring up

[00:19:10] one of them is irks me a little bit and that is the sixty thousand dollar hit to the taxpayers so that we can put up signs to say that this is the free state of Florida and you'll see that

[00:19:22] is you're coming in and as you're leaving the free state of Florida I just don't know how anyone can say that with a straight face yeah I mean it's it's a silly thing to be doing in the first place

[00:19:37] I mean to anyone really you know I mean to anyone even really care about these signs like why or was there a need for this only when it uses a stop for free orange juices you are coming

[00:19:47] across the planet many people care about those it's like it is like at once both petty and also just kind of ridiculous me putting that free state of Florida I mean it's the governors

[00:19:58] like campaign slogan is what it is and so it's it's just it's obvious what's going on there and it's just kind of offensive that anyone's using pretending it's something it's not that's true

[00:20:08] and of course there's the referendum that we'll be facing as well too and then most importantly one is to legalize recreational marijuana and the others to in shrine abortion rights into our state constitution that's going to be one heck of a fight as we're going towards November

[00:20:25] it is I mean you see what do you be heard about that night I mean I think you know those are two issues that that poll very well that poll above the the threshold that they need for 60% which is

[00:20:39] very you know that's a high you know what think about like you know what do 60% of Americans are green on anymore at all right and so it's a high bar but those those two issues do typically

[00:20:51] poll above that one interesting thing to keep an eye on there is is dissatisfaction said that he is going to campaign against them and I am curious this kind of post presidential run

[00:21:06] lame duck version of dissantis if he's going to actually be able to raise meaningful money and actually deploy any kind of substantive campaign against these two initiatives that's something

[00:21:18] I'm a bit curious about I've gotten the sense that he is finding it a little bit harder to raise money and there also might be an issue that companies and other special interests might be reluctant to

[00:21:31] give money to causes that are popular right because that's might make you one popular so that'll be an interesting thing to keep an eye on. I saw the first TV spot in support of the

[00:21:43] marijuana initiative this morning and it was a woman of color who is well into her 60s and she was talking about the medicinal qualities of marijuana and the freedom of being able to use it

[00:21:57] as a recreational but I thought it was an interesting actor to use to come to roll out a new campaign to legalize marijuana a lot of people may have thought that they were going to see someone from

[00:22:10] 1969 and it wouldn't stop. He would be coming up with long hair and with the joint hanging out of their mouth but no this is a very respected industry and the other part of that is the whispers you may

[00:22:22] hear in Tallahassee is is is is the if you will the mouth watering over the tax revenue that's going to be generated from this if in fact it does pass because other states have seen just a

[00:22:35] windfall illinois colorado all of these states that have legalized recreational pot have seen this is a windfall as far as revenue is concerned and to take it just from what we have here going

[00:22:47] on locally one of the reasons why the mayor's new budget is cut back so much because we're not getting the revenue that we hoped that we would be able to get. Yeah I mean marijuana is at this point

[00:22:59] of a mature industry and there are lots of places we can look at if this passes to implement there were where have there been lessons learned and how to do it right the concern I have

[00:23:13] getting ahead of our skis a little bit with you were that amendment to pass and this sort of goes in line with what we were talking about earlier the legislature and parental rights and

[00:23:24] your free until we decide you're not the voters pass this amendment I mean I think a question that has not just occurred to me is what is the legislature in government going to do to undermine

[00:23:34] that constitutional amendment are they going to try to when they have to implement it or they are going to put barriers in place that effectively still keep it illegal or overly burdensome

[00:23:47] to try to obtain legal marijuana I mean there are I'm curious if they're going to be road blocks put in place and this is something that we saw with the felon in franchisement amendment that

[00:23:58] voters passed a few years ago the legislature and the governor essentially blocked it and so that's even though it's part of the constitution and it's not just telehency what are they

[00:24:09] going to do about it on Duvall Street right I mean we have a local government who also will have the power to be able to regulate like they do alcohol now and to back on now at least locally

[00:24:20] in zones and things of that sort so it'll be interesting how that whole thing is going to roll out speaking of Duvall Street if I can ask do you see much difference in what we're going to see in the

[00:24:33] next 12 months with Randy White heading up the city council instead of Ron Salem? I don't know I mean I think Randy and Ron were fairly aligned I think Randy White is probably one of the more flexible and municipal republicans that that Donna D. you can

[00:24:55] will have to work with I think the I think the bench after Ron and Randy becomes a little bit less friendly for her in the coming years I think there are some more kind of partisan actors

[00:25:10] on the council who will not be so easy to work with and some of that may also depend on what happens in the national election in New Vancouver. The country is elected sure because we'll see

[00:25:21] how long the certals are number one and whether or not that magamovment continues and continues to come down to our areas well Mr. Tolberty. Mr. Heightard also has said yeah before my

[00:25:36] October could I wanted it to that subject but I was just thinking when you was talking about to Santa and how we're he is in his last two years it would be interesting Mr. Moro for you to

[00:25:50] assist high-tars observation with JD events being on the ticket being 38 years old I'm wondering where that least Mr. Santa is in the next two to 40 years. Yeah I mean I've seen some discussion about that already it leaves him high and dry maybe

[00:26:14] it certainly seems like a choice that would complicate a future Ron for disant this and that would be true whether Trump wins or loses right this was kind of his chance to pick a successor to this

[00:26:28] movement and I was a skeptic I mean I often get things wrong but I was very right about disant his and was a skeptic of his national prospects a few years ago he just doesn't have it

[00:26:46] he just doesn't have charisma he doesn't have people skills he doesn't you know is not an entertainer and I feel like this moment at least in the Republican Party you've got to be a

[00:27:00] bit of a showman and he is whatever the opposite of a showman is so yeah I would say that was not a good development for his political future and the same like this is a bridge burning with Susie

[00:27:14] wild has some help right yes I would not be shocked if Trump you know I do not think Trump will ever forget disant his is treachery and I think that as long as Trump is alive he will

[00:27:32] do whatever he can to undermine disant his at every turn I mean he holds grudges I can't fall it's just this is not me going on an alarm and saying all of this you think

[00:27:43] Marco has got a chance of becoming secretary state I don't know that's what I understood for it and I that's what they're talking around this point at least that's what he's I mean

[00:27:52] understanding he's kind of campaigning for I'm sure he would love that I'm sure he would love that I am too this would not give the sense I think that would give the sense of chance to not

[00:28:03] appoint himself into the US. Great that's true yeah that's true so is it my time now? We're at the end of it could you see again Nate what was listen we're we're typing this

[00:28:20] on Tuesday July the 16th and it'll air start airing Monday to 22nd that's about a week I think before airing's on not favorite topic is scheduled to be sentenced I'm curious just

[00:28:34] if you have a prediction or what's going to happen and what do you think the United States will do? Yeah that's a good question so yeah he gets sentenced on the on the 30th unless something changes

[00:28:46] and frequently does in federal court I think I think the smart money is is probably in the three to five year range of a prison sentence I think I think that kind of hits a sweet spot in

[00:29:04] terms of it's a pretty proportional sentence I think for the the crimes he was convicted of I think that judge Davis will want to make a little bit of a statement with it you know he might

[00:29:21] think that there is a bit of a deterrent effect if if someone accused of corruption is going to have to do real time you know judge Davis judge Davis took senior status in kind of the middle of this case

[00:29:38] and he could have handed it off like he didn't have to stay with this case he kept it because he wanted it and I think that you know it would not be crazy if he viewed this as

[00:29:52] fairly important part of the legacy he's going to leave so I do think that three to five kind of seems right but I'm open minded to being surprised. Don't you know judge Davis is his Jackson Jacksonville thrilling through and I suspect that

[00:30:16] one of the reasons he didn't want to give him here the case of way is because of his roots in Jacksonville his love for the city and I also understand that that Aaron's on has not shown any remorse or any

[00:30:28] indication that he did anything wrong and I would I'd be surprised if that doesn't waste somehow home judge Davis with his students. Yeah there's been absolutely no contrition on on zones or whatsoever that came out where you were there the difference between he and

[00:30:45] one maker. Yeah I mean I think part of what will be interesting on the 30th is is what does I mean how does Aaron's on present on the 30th you know I think that the judge

[00:31:01] you know I'll sort of be a devil's advocate here and say that you know Zahn pleaded not guilty to these charges which you know criminal defendants have a right to do that and they have a right

[00:31:15] to wage a vigorous defense he chose of you know a very defiant and kind of curious defense strategy but I think a judge would be hard pressed to hold that against them because that was you know

[00:31:29] his right to do that. I think what will matter is you know how to see compose himself in the 30th what kind of presentation does he put on what did the probation officer find in their

[00:31:45] pre-sensing report these are lengthy substantive documents that then we do not get to see that report we will probably hear it referenced and we might get glimpses of what's in it but that's the

[00:32:00] stuff that's gonna really determine it he didn't take the stands in his own defense which was probably wise you know that's a situation where a judge if if you you know lie on the stand or

[00:32:13] your purger yourself that can be held against you but I think just a kind of arguments that he raised I don't think Davis will I don't think he'll use those things to you know justify a prison sentence

[00:32:30] you think he'll court or personal one last I do assume three to five years right about yeah one last question they you're absolutely uniquely qualified to write a book about this story you're just all of our history when you're gonna do that

[00:32:51] yeah I mean I've given some thought to like a longer term treatment at the topic I haven't the thing and I've told others this here and if you live in Jacksonville you may not

[00:33:06] believe this but it would be hard to sell anyone who doesn't live in Jacksonville on a book about Jacksonville's public utility it's not it's it can be a bit of a dry topic if you don't live here

[00:33:20] they would probably have to be some broader exploration of the utility industry and that that stuff almost makes my eyes glaze over it's not the easiest thing to write but I have thought about it

[00:33:33] you know you don't think next era we buy up every copy just to give up to their employees just to keep them off the shelves yeah I don't think they they will be doing me any favors

[00:33:46] well I I I I totally support my choice but there is no one who has helped us get through this more than you because just probably nobody who understood what was going on they can be

[00:34:01] you and I do have those times pardon me that's max who is trying to be in this way yeah he wants to say hi it is that you understood the business and so when you I think when my

[00:34:15] tober like Miller and I were talking about a possible book it's just very few people who could probably write that story because you understood the business you understood the intricacies of a public utility and then again in the course I'm biased on this one is the greed and

[00:34:33] humorous and political shenanigans that went into that and I for one person and I I'll speak for myself with this group I think that there is a lesson in there for people who are

[00:34:47] now elected and people who should think about down the road being elected is that if you want to take a chance and try something like that there are consequences then I think that there's nobody

[00:35:00] better sitting in that capburt state than you who understood it and can lay out how it happened why it happened and how it almost happened and because of people I call

[00:35:12] Miller and a couple other folks that it stopped and if that lesson is not understood and out there I believe that history will agree to itself and I think you and the person to keep at least

[00:35:24] keep some of these people who since there is a lack of accountability in the ethics department I think that there needs to be this going to be on the record otherwise people will try it again

[00:35:36] why don't I thought yeah I appreciate that one thing I will get to do in this new role and I've done to some extent is keep an eye on the public service commission and the state's investor own utilities and those are those companies are by many factors larger

[00:36:01] than J.A. and have a huge impact on the lives of Floridians and that is getting back to a topic we've touched on their fewer reporters in the state than there were 10 years ago,

[00:36:14] 20 years ago there were fewer eyes on places like the Public Service Commission and I do hope that in the future I can use the column to draw some public attention on what's going on there

[00:36:27] yeah it's kind of ironic because as you take a look at the media industry today obviously there are more media outlets than ever before for people to be able to get news news that see their

[00:36:40] accurate inaccurate but they can get news and yet when you think about the number of reporters that are now working for the traditional media conglomerates and corporations that number is shrinking so you've got it's for the horizontally we're growing but the vertical movement is shrinking

[00:37:01] so we're going to have a lot of one story stories if you will rather than large corporations with large staffs that are able to cover every story that really needs to be covered and we're seeing

[00:37:11] that in television too and radio of course that happened years ago. We're seeing it in a lot of industries and also institutions I mean look at what is happening to public education in Florida you have these you know formerly strong centralized public school districts are now shrinking

[00:37:30] there are as a more kind of patchwork system of private schools and charter schools and the quality of those institutions varies widely and it's hard to sort of keep an eye on all of them

[00:37:41] and I mean that's you know it's it's also just kind of an institutional thing in this country that what were ones kind of strong civic institutions are also not so much anymore. Well Nate we appreciate

[00:37:54] you being with us here on your third episode of likes I'm like hope you'll be with us many times now that you're broadening your vision we now can bring you on to talk about other issues if we

[00:38:04] if we feel that it's important to Jacksonville church to be able to talk about it here as well so yeah let me suggest that you keep your eye on the PFC thank you will find a reservoir of opportunities there

[00:38:17] for somebody like Nate road to pull the curtain back so much as the thought and an observation there and by the way thank you all for joining us as we begin year two of likes I'm Mike our gratitude

[00:38:30] to Dr. Allen Bliss of course the good people at the Jacksonville History Center and the Jacksonville Historical Society and to paraphrase Allen from last week show the most effective leaders of tomorrow will be

[00:38:41] those who have learned from our shared past once again find Mike's on Mike and your favorite podcast platform check it out on our Facebook page which or our website which is Mike's on Mike.com or on YouTube

[00:38:55] thanks again for joining us and in weeks to come we're going to be talking about the new budget for the city of Jacksonville I was just handed over of course to the city council on Monday and day

[00:39:05] before we're taping this and they'll be talking about it until it finally goes to a vote sometime in September we'll be talking about that hopefully with the mayor and with a few others who have

[00:39:14] intricate knowledge about the budget and where the money is coming from and where the money's going to be going thank you again all for joining us and we'll see you again next week.