Mixing it Up with the Mikes (Episode 85 Re-run)

[00:00:00] Hello everybody, the three mics are taking a one episode break today. Instead, we've gone back into our archives and we're going to share episode number 85, which was entitled Mixing It Up with the Mikes. It aired back in March of 2025. Our discussion of local politics and issues from a year ago is just as relevant and timely today. Enjoy the episode. Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike.

[00:00:28] Mikes on Mic, a conversation about politics, government, and Jacksonville with 50-year opinion leaders Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert, and award-winning broadcaster and longtime political observer, Mike Miller. Welcome to the 85th episode of Mikes on Mic. I'm Mike Miller along with Mike Hightower and Mike Tolbert. Nice to have you with us and thanks for joining us.

[00:00:50] Today, the three of us are going to be covering some topics of interest like the squabble between Mayor Deegan and Councilman Ron Salem about the Deegan DIA proposal to swap downtown riverfront land for the building of the University of Florida. Mike Tolbert, get us started. What's going on between the mayor and Salem? This time. Yeah, this time.

[00:01:12] It should be obvious to all of us by now that with Salem's misguided ambition to run for mayor in 2027 against Mayor Deegan, that anytime he thinks he's got a political shot to take, he's going to take it, whether it's good politics or not. And this is one of those occasions, I think. Not too long ago, despite the city charter calling for a strong mayor type of government, Salem has been complaining that Mayor Deegan is overstepping her own bounds.

[00:01:42] She's been too strong. And he thinks the council ought to have more say-so in what administrative issues go on. It's nuts. And in a meeting of the Downtown Investment Authority recently, Chief of Staff Mike Weinstein was there in part talking about this building swap. And I want to read you something he said. He said, we have frustrated legislators, council members that want to negotiate and do what the mayor's job is.

[00:02:10] And I think that's a big part of this problem. But let's talk about the issue of the building right now. Now, to set the table, the University of Florida decided in December, this past December, that it was going to build a much sought-after graduate school in downtown Jacksonville near where the convention center is.

[00:02:32] Mayor Deegan and the DIA are trying to work a land swap that would give the city, Mayor Deegan, the city, a building on Bay Street, the interline building, in exchange for an acre of land on the riverfront that would be given to Gateway Jacks that owns that building.

[00:02:55] If the city gets that building with that swap, then the city will in turn give that building to the University of Florida so that it can open and start its classes in August right away. Salem's trying to throw a mucky wrench into that. He says it shouldn't be land swap. It should be paid out of cash. It should be paid. He's come up with a price of $4 million.

[00:03:19] And I don't know anybody who knows where that $4 million figure came from or if it has any validity at all. And he says it should be paid out of city reserves. That's ironic in that he's been, he's taken such a hard stand that city reserves should not be used unless it's something that he wants to do with it. Maybe that makes it okay. And he keeps saying he's a fiscal conservative, but he wants to take $4 million and spend on this land.

[00:03:48] Instead of doing a land swap, it wouldn't cost the city anything and would accomplish exactly what needs to be done. I might add that one acre of land swap is going to be the, is pretended to be the site of where a proposed big building, I think 16 story building will be built downtown on the river at the riverfront part, riverfront, wherever it's called that, riverfront pleasant. It's just nuts.

[00:04:15] And it's a continuation of the crap that we see coming out of city council an awful lot. I think we're going to, obviously this is not the first salvo, but it's going to be one of many that are going to be coming up here starting this year, I guess, as the election gets closer. And we're going to hear it not just from Salem, who, as you point out correctly, has already indicated his desire to want to run for mayor. But I think we're going to hear it out of Rory Diamond.

[00:04:41] We're going to be hearing it out of a lot of the more vocal opponents to the mayor as we do get closer to it. But I don't understand the logic of why it would be better to buy than swap. Barter is always general. I shouldn't say always, but generally is the preferred method so that no one's reaching in their pocket for anything. Yeah. When you go into negotiations, the first thing you say is, can we get this done for less?

[00:05:07] And so it seems like we're coming in ass backwards, for lack of a better expression. Mike Tolbert set the table correctly. This is not going to be the first salvo that we're going to hear from Ron Salem. The closer we get to 2027, or I guess midterm 2026, when people go out and start raising money. But beside Mr. Salem, we've heard Rory Diamond. We also heard Jerry Holland's interested.

[00:05:35] And we heard that Representative Wyman Duggan. Is Wyman still in? Representative from over in Avondale. Wyman Duggan. Is that Wyman Duggan? Wyman. So you got four. So maybe what he's just trying to do is find a niche, find something that separates him from the other part. But I really like the idea that Mike raised this part is, when you go back and look at the things that we've been struggling with from the first time the mayor proposed when she got here.

[00:06:03] When it was talking about reserves, he always said it was like the third rail. Don't touch it. But in this case, what's the first third rail that he touches? Four million dollars because he wants to be in the middle of it. This is nothing but trying to, one, move from the legislative branch into the executive branch. And I think candidly, I think people are tired of this type of foolishness. Well, he wants to negotiate a contract. He wants the council to negotiate contracts with folks. And can you imagine that?

[00:06:33] How would you do that with 19 members in Sunshine Law? How in the hell would you negotiate a contract with a developer? That's what the DIA is there for. That's what the administration is there for. And the council is a legislative body that ought to approve or deny. Being a former lobbyist and being a little bit cynical, if you want to bring that part in there so that there's a debate and you have to negotiate and you're running for office, maybe there's a quid pro quo. I don't know.

[00:07:01] But I guess I'm being very cynical on this. But it's a matter of, you know, stay in your sandbox. Look at the charter, as Mike Talbert has said. Look at what the duties and the power of the legislative branch, the executive branch is, and stay in your lane. Real simple. The bottom line is that this deal is going to go to city council for their approval or denial anyhow. So let it play out and see what happens.

[00:07:27] If the council overwhelmingly or even by a slim margin decides that they don't want this deal, they'll vote it down and they'll go back to the negotiating table. Yeah. But we also, there's a third part. Why do we, ever since this program has started, we've been talking and we've had Laurie Boyer on there. What is the role of the DIA? So not only is he trying to step into the mayor's powers, but he's trying to upstage the DIA. So I think we're getting close to needing Laurie to come back to the show.

[00:07:56] The DIA approved this swap. Exactly. The DIA. That was their recommendation. They approved this swap. Yep. Yep. We need to get Laurie Boyer back on the program, guys, so we can get an update on all of this kind of stuff. There's a lot going on downtown that we need to talk about. Mike Hightower, last year, Mayor Deegan and council agreed to give police officers and firefighters significant and very well-deserved races.

[00:08:18] But recently, our friend Nate Monroe, the new editor, executive editor of the Jacksonville Tributary, reported that the city owes the pension fund $3 billion. That means this year's payment from the general fund will be a record of $201 million. What's going on with that? Let's first talk about the $210 million, and then we'll talk about the $3 billion. That $2 billion, it's for parks, libraries, public safety.

[00:08:45] And until recently, until we talked about it, it was about the garbage feed. Thank goodness we had 12 city council folks that did the right thing, stepped up, took that off the table. Kudos to them. Also, when you think about people who didn't do the right thing, who was leading the pack of just say no? Ron Salem. But that's a separate issue. The pay raises that the mayor talked about, they were overdue. There's no question about that. Billion in debt is there. It's got to be addressed.

[00:09:14] And if you all remember, was it two weeks ago, we had Mayor Payton who gave us a, I thought, an outstanding civics lesson on the financial, where we are with the city. And the one thing that came across very clearly, that when you look at where we need to go to the next generation, we're doing, if you remember what he said, and did it very artfully and very accurately with his charts, was that the city wants it both ways.

[00:09:41] They want to move to the next tier, but they want to do it on the cheap. And we're always doing it on the cheap. And what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to eventually, to address the 3 billion and become a new big tier city, we're going to have to start having city council folks. They're going to step up, have the political courage to do the right thing and not run as looking for a niche to run a fiscal conservative, call it what you want.

[00:10:07] Now, the legacy should be, in my way is, it should be a legacy of leadership. It should not be a legacy of, I just said no. And that's how we're going to address not only this debt, but when we're looking at what we want to do to move the city, because we've got, we've already talked about the jail coming up. We're talking about the stadium, which that's, we have a marriage there for another 30 years and we need to do that. We've got the waterfront that we're talking about bringing folks now.

[00:10:37] And as the mayor talked about, we've got over 100 folks a year, families, all that, that are coming into the city. So to me, it's really about, we've got to address the debt. When we go back and think, why do we have this huge debt? We go back to the former administration, his pension reform. From my perspective, that was nothing but another way of just kicking the can down the road. It was smoke and mirrors.

[00:11:06] And we're still addressed with it. We still got the debt. And it's going to take political courage to do the right thing by a group of people. And I think that's where we better go on this. The Better Jacksonville plan did have a sunset on it, I believe, didn't it? 2031, Mike Tolbert, is that correct? That was my memory. I think that's correct. And Curry's reform plan said that when that sun set, the half penny would stay there and it would go to the pension debt.

[00:11:35] Interesting enough, I spoke with Mayor Payton about this year this past week. And he reminded me that when he was sworn in as mayor in 2003, 2003, that the city's obligation was $30 million to the pension fund, not $201 million. A lot of difference. All right.

[00:11:59] Speaking of the Jacksonville Tributary, by the way, shortly after we began podcasting Mike Sound Mike, our guest was its former editor, Andrew Pantazzi. We discussed the horrible health conditions at the Duval County Jail that included a number of deaths. Tributary was all over that story, as was, by the way, one of the television stations, to give them credit as well. But because of the horrible conditions, a national accrediting agency put the jail on probation back in 2023.

[00:12:26] Sheriff changed health care providers from Armour to Navcare, who is our current health provider. The Tributary reported that the changed jail deaths increased by 50 percent. Now, the accrediting agency has lifted the jail's probation, apparently. Navcare increased their medical staff at the jail by 14 full-time employees, including physicians, a health care services administrator, RNs, and a mental health director.

[00:12:52] The Tributary reported that the booking area is now staffed at all hours by the medical profession, who can give immediate attention to anybody entering the jail who needs it. The purpose of me sharing all of this with you is to stress once again the need and the value of good local journalism. And our thanks go out to Andrew Pantazzi, the staff of the Tributary at the time, and to others who are staying on this story.

[00:13:16] Most likely, if the Tributary had not been the dog on the bone, people would still be dying much more often than they are at the Duval County Jail. So, great job to Nate. Great job to the Tributary. And we know Nate's going to be doing just as well in his new position as executive editor. I was just going to say, this is encouraging to me as a former journalist and somebody who believes in the need for good local journalism.

[00:13:42] Because as we watch the Times Union diminish, unfortunately, it looks like in its place of growing these independent nonprofit outlets like the Tributary are growing up and becoming stronger and really getting their hands on stuff. So, maybe it's old guys like us still like to hold onto that newspaper, but it's a changing world.

[00:14:04] And I'm hopeful and I'm really beginning to start believing that places like the Tributary are really going to be valuable in the future to this city and to other cities. And I'll echo that as far as what we're doing, guys, just to pat ourselves on the back for a minute. Podcasts are becoming much more important in the media scene than they've ever been before. There's a lot of junk out there, we all know, but there's a lot of really good stuff too, including our program, if you don't mind us bringing it in.

[00:14:32] But there are some very good and interesting and important podcasts that are going on, which I know is having a detrimental effect on the traditional broadcast media. And you're seeing it. You're seeing it also in newspapers because of, as you point out, Mike Tolbert, all of the other types of alternative media that's going on. Somebody was decrying to me the other day because they had picked up a Sunday copy of the Florida Times Union.

[00:14:57] And they said, whereas they could hardly pick it up before, today it's only a few pages and most of it's from out of town anyhow. This evolution is not going to go back. And we and our public are going to have to learn to adapt to it, that they're going to be reading most of their news, to be honest with you, on this thing. Exactly. If I can share with Mike Miller, you and I shared, we happened to be when Nate, they had reception for Nate when he was welcomed in as the new public header.

[00:15:26] And if you remember, the gentleman there who was talking about the role of tributary and the importance that it played. The word that he used about, and if I remember correctly, I counted one time, there were nine times he used the word transparency. And that's what I walked away with. And I really think that goes back to, as you set this topic up about what Andrew did, it was about the transparency of the issue.

[00:15:52] And as my Tolbert just said, we're not getting any of the local news through other unfortunately through the Times Union. So it's going to have to be places like the tributary or, as you said, where we've got to be able to go back. We're not getting, we're not getting as much. We're not getting as much, but we're getting as much as the great David Barreline can produce. Yes. But he's one human being. One human being. Yeah. He's, yeah. He doesn't have the resources and the help he needs, but he, he does an unbelievable job.

[00:16:21] Absolutely. The other thing that I think that if I can just bridge back to our last week, our guest with Dennis from the Civic Council, when they were talking about the things that they're going to address in their, their 90 day sprints, that's another way that you take that new approach. Plus what Nate's going to be doing with the tributary, what David is attempting to do through the Times Union. I think that word transparency and those kinds of issues, that's where we can all help push that out.

[00:16:49] So that's going to be important as we're, if in fact, we're going to move the city forward. Yeah. Very true. All right, guys, let's call some quick hits to finish the podcast up this morning, this afternoon rather. I'm going to mention a topic and each of you please give us your thoughts on it. First one, which I think is very interesting. This is going to be fun. Trump is backing Congressman Byron Donalds while DeSantis promotes his wife and former Jacksonville TV news reporter,

[00:17:17] Casey Black DeSantis. How's that going to play out, guys? Go ahead, Mr. Talbert. Oh, you should go first, Mr. Hightower. This is your party, buddy. First and foremost, let me just bring something here. Before the show, about 1115, I watched DeSantis gave the opening, as all governors do, was the opening of the legislature. And in that, he brought up his wife doing two or three initiatives. I just thought that was interesting.

[00:17:45] I thought that was very thoughtful and very supportive that he would do that for his wife. My sense is that when we get to the year 2026, by then, Mr. Stantz will be a lame duck. But I think by 2026, as Dr. Mike Bender said, Florida is very red and Florida is very Trump. And my sense is that having Congressman Donalds having his endorsement, I think will go along. That's my take.

[00:18:15] Can I play devil's advocate for a minute? Sure. And I don't want us to get talking into politics, but Trump's had a really good, busy six weeks so far. I guess it's six weeks. But I think there's an opportunity for Trump to unravel before the governor's race comes up in 2026. So I think it's still up in the air. I know Donalds would not win a beauty contest with her. So I guess that's not how it's going to get decided.

[00:18:45] I'll tell you, and I put something up on my Facebook page. Sorry to unplug it or anything, but I put a warning up there based on what I've been hearing. And that is, you may want to go ahead and fill up your cars and trucks now and buy all of the avocados you can find in the store as well as strawberries and other things. Because once the tariffs go into play and once the immigration program of the presidents really starts taking effect, we're going to see those higher prices.

[00:19:13] And I think one of the problems that all of the Republican politicians and those that are supporting the president are going to have as they go forward, including, by the way, the Republican Party in Florida, is I thought you guys were promising that you are going to get prices lower. And what we're going to be seeing from every economist I've heard, and not all Democrats, by the way, is that we're going to see prices actually go up. They said gas is going to be going up until Easter. And then we may see a little bit of a drop after Easter. That's after April, of course.

[00:19:43] But I don't know. I know that Mike Bender said we're a real red state, a Trump state, but I think we may end up being a little more purple if things don't get better than the way they seem to be going right now. Mr. Miller, I so appreciate what you did. I just have to say for four years, the D's never talked about the price of anything. You're right. Now the president's been there five and a half weeks, and now we're talking about prices high. Okay, this next one here, Mr. Hightower, is for you.

[00:20:12] The legislative session. What's going to happen this term, buddy? I'll just pick up on what I heard in the governor. One of the things that she talks about, I know I've been gone a while, but I didn't realize how long I had been gone, that this year's budget is $115.6 billion, the state budget. I can remember it was $75,000,

[00:20:40] and just unbelievable. Now, to having said that, what I heard today that the budget, believe it or not, is $1.57 less than last year's, which was interesting, even though with all the things the governor is proposing. It was interesting that the surplus is now three times what it has to be. What I heard him talk a lot about, which is going to be interesting, were these tax days,

[00:21:05] where they give for school, for going back. He wants to do it, though, for boating, recreation, some of those things. One of the things that, you know, getting away from the politics, we've got to say that we are blessed to have one of these states where they've done good public policy. It's been Democrat and Republican. Then that is, you've got to have a balanced budget. And so we do have great for reserves. And according to what I heard today, we are number one on so many

[00:21:32] different categories. We've still got a lot of progress. But then after I heard all the good things that he wants to do, the new speaker is from Miami. And one of the things that he is addressing that Mike Miller, you and I talked about is property insurance in South Florida with these condos. He wants to know really what's going on with the property insurance. Again, it'll be interesting

[00:21:56] to me. It'll be interesting to see the change of three years ago or two years ago when the legislature basically just rubber snapped everything DeSantis wanted. And now what you've got is what they're going to be doing for the next two years with this governor who is now lame duck. So it'll be interesting to see where we go. Mike Hightower, I worry about two or three different things with this legislature. One is a further diminishment for home rule, taking the ability of local governments

[00:22:26] to rule themselves and make their own decisions. And I'm not sure this, I don't know much about this, but I'm hearing that they're going after the property tax. Cities are going to have to find a way to reduce their property tax, which is so crucial to operating cities. They've done that before Charlie Chris did it when he was governor. He rolled back property taxes. I worry about ballot initiatives. It looks like this

[00:22:50] legislature is determined to make it much more difficult for people to vote on ballot initiatives like the abortion amendment, like the marijuana and so many others. They're trying to restrict that. And then I worry about working people. We're beginning to chip away and fragment services that people who work and who need help are not going to be getting. And I think that scares me with this

[00:23:19] legislature. It's not just this legislature. It's something that we see everywhere. But I hope we get through this thing. The least of my concerns is how they get along with DeSantis and DeSantis gets along with them, the political push and shove. But I do worry about chipping away, especially at home room. Yeah. If I can just on that, all politics are local. Just to share with everyone, the speaker, when you're talking about the legislative session, the speaker, president of the Senate,

[00:23:49] and the governor are the three most powerful folks. That's what governor proposes it. Then it's up to the house and send them to do what they're going to do. We need to remember the speaker this year is from Miami. Next year, it's from just next door, Clay County, Mr. Garrison. So for the folks listening out there, to Mike Tolbert's concern about, because the governor talked about this tax issue, about the property tax issue. What did he say about it? He's pushing. He thinks it's a good idea.

[00:24:18] Now, is he looking to eliminate property taxes? Yeah. Coming up with a different approach. Now, it's complicated and all that, but Mike Tolbert is absolutely right. My point in bringing this up is two years, you got two sessions. That's how they're going to approach it. But if we want to have input, not only people, the three of us, but the people who listen to this or North Florida, a lot of that's going to

[00:24:44] determine two years from now, literally two years from now today, when the next speaker is Sam Garrison from Orange Park. And we need to be thinking about that and watching to what Mike Tolbert is saying. What is it they're attempting to do? And who's voting for? And the number two, in two years, two years from today, we're going to have one of those three most influential folks for the next two years after that. We need to be thinking about that and encouraging people to

[00:25:12] listen to that. Okay. Because home rule, Mike Tolbert is dead ass wrong. I hate to use that expression, but it's more than just chipping away, guys. It's been huge stones taken out of that wall. And it's getting worse. And we're seeing it now locally when you look at some of the authorities where the governor has appointments. Home rule is being eroded. It's front and center, folks.

[00:25:38] Mike Tolbert. At both levels, by the way, local and at the state level from the federal government. Because those are unfunded mandates that unfortunately come down the pipe. Catch us on your favorite podcast platform or on YouTube or our own website as well as Facebook. And we'll see you again next week. Thanks for joining us. Mike's on Mike with Mike Tolbert, Mike Hightower, and Mike Miller can be found on your favorite

[00:26:02] podcasting platform, Facebook and YouTube. Visit the website at Mike's on Mike dot com. Join us next time for more conversation with Mike's on Mike. Mike.