Public Opinion vs. Political Decisions: Jacksonville Stadium and Education Projects

[00:00:01] Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike

[00:00:04] Mikes on Mic, a conversation about politics, government and Jacksonville with 50-year opinion

[00:00:10] leaders Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert and award-winning broadcaster and longtime political

[00:00:16] observer Mike Miller.

[00:00:18] Welcome once again to another episode of Mikes on Mic.

[00:00:20] I'm Mike Miller here in studio.

[00:00:22] My two colleagues, Mike Hightower and Mike Tolbert are both in their respective homes

[00:00:26] out of the city so they're joining us remotely and we're happy to have them with us.

[00:00:31] And of course the program is brought to you by our friends at the Jacksonville Historical

[00:00:35] Society which is located inside the Jacksonville History Center and our thanks as always to

[00:00:41] Alan Bliss and the fine donors who help keep this program going.

[00:00:45] After we've had a few weeks of really great guests, today we thought it would be just

[00:00:51] the three Mikes offering our observations, insights and perceptions about some of the

[00:00:55] current issues that are facing us here in Jacksonville today.

[00:00:58] There's a lot to discuss, true, but we're going to do three of those issues.

[00:01:04] The newly named Duval County School Superintendent and what he and Jacksonville will be facing

[00:01:09] when he starts his new position this summer.

[00:01:12] The second will be the City Council as a new special committee that is intended

[00:01:16] to examine the downtown investment authority as well as just all of the progress of

[00:01:21] downtown and what we can do to move some of these projects along a little faster.

[00:01:25] And then finally we want to check out the tenor and the perceptions, if you will, of

[00:01:31] the general public with the new Jaguar Stadium and the $1.4 billion package which is going

[00:01:38] to the City Council here in the next couple of weeks.

[00:01:41] So let's start out with a new superintendent, Mike Tobert.

[00:01:44] When the school board voted unanimously last week to appoint Dr. Bernier from Lee County,

[00:01:50] it appeared that all was great and that Bernier and the board members were all getting

[00:01:54] along very well.

[00:01:55] It was an unanimous thought, but you say there may be more to it, correct?

[00:01:59] Well, I'm not sure there's more to it, but on face value of what you saw, it looks

[00:02:05] like they're all in agreement.

[00:02:07] But you know, there's some really, really dark ominous clouds over education in Duval

[00:02:12] County and the state of Florida, and this guy is going to have to navigate all those

[00:02:18] things over the next several months and maybe a couple of years.

[00:02:22] You know, we've talked about this before.

[00:02:24] We've got decreasing enrollment.

[00:02:26] It's more and more parents are moving their children into private schools, going to charter

[00:02:33] schools.

[00:02:34] We know that the half penny sales tax now looks like it's a billion or more dollars

[00:02:38] short of what we hoped it would produce to renovate public schools.

[00:02:44] The board is looking to consolidate or close schools which is getting significant

[00:02:49] community pushback.

[00:02:52] And then there's the politics of all of it, you know, in Jacksonville and Duval

[00:02:58] County and in the state of Florida with some of the actions by the governor and

[00:03:02] the Florida legislature and the bombs of liberty.

[00:03:05] So I don't know that it's going to be smooth sailing even though he got a

[00:03:08] unanimous vote.

[00:03:10] I know all the board members approved of him.

[00:03:14] I'm hearing that it was not with great passion among some of them.

[00:03:18] What do you think is going to be the greatest challenge?

[00:03:21] Is it the most visible one, obviously, is the question of the consolidation of

[00:03:26] the schools and the possible closing of some of the schools.

[00:03:29] That's really hit the emotional cord of people who are interested in the

[00:03:33] school system.

[00:03:34] But do you think that that's the most important issue or do you think it has

[00:03:37] more to do with the money that they're not able to get for the

[00:03:42] infrastructure work that they wanted to do with the half cent?

[00:03:45] I think this is just me.

[00:03:47] But I think the biggest, hardest obstacle to overcome is going to be

[00:03:51] the political environment.

[00:03:53] The assault on public education by charter schools that's coming out of

[00:03:56] the legislature and the governor's office, that's going to be long term.

[00:04:02] There's no quick fix to that that we can think about.

[00:04:05] So I think that may have a bigger impact over the long haul.

[00:04:09] We can always reduce the number of buildings we're going to build and

[00:04:13] we can always change the number of schools we're going to close or

[00:04:17] consolidate.

[00:04:18] But until that horror story goes away, public education in Florida and

[00:04:24] in Dewall County particularly is facing some tough times.

[00:04:28] Mike Tolbert, I don't disagree except that when the reports that I

[00:04:33] have read is that the new superintendent is a close friend of

[00:04:39] the commissioner of education, Maddie Diaz, and who was chosen by

[00:04:45] the governor.

[00:04:46] So I think on the political side, I think as opposed to the past

[00:04:52] superintendent who was at odds with both the governor and the

[00:04:57] commissioner of education.

[00:04:58] And my understanding, again, I picked this up from some of the

[00:05:03] tweets and stuff going on is that the governor and commissioner

[00:05:08] Diaz are supporters, are fans of Moms of Liberty.

[00:05:14] So I think from a political perspective, I think that the

[00:05:20] superintendent may be more aligned with the governor, the

[00:05:25] commissioner of education and the Moms of Liberty.

[00:05:29] So I think in that respect, I think to your point and all

[00:05:35] that group, my understanding is that group is a huge advocate for

[00:05:40] choice which comes to charter, which I think comes to the issue

[00:05:44] of people who in Dewall County may not be great advocates of

[00:05:48] charter for a number of reasons.

[00:05:51] But one of the reasons is, as you know, with charter schools

[00:05:54] or with choice, if the student leaves and goes to a charter

[00:05:58] school or something else, then the money that that student has

[00:06:02] follows it, which I guess leads to the issue which we've discussed

[00:06:06] on this show for many times is the enrollment in Dewall County

[00:06:11] is really falling at a pretty substantial rate, which is my

[00:06:16] understanding.

[00:06:17] You all have been doing this as long as I have, which is, I

[00:06:21] think, one of the rationales for the closing of some of these

[00:06:25] schools.

[00:06:26] It's all tied together.

[00:06:28] It's all tied together and it begins and ends with the

[00:06:33] politics going on in the state of Florida right now.

[00:06:36] This is causing charter schools to take away public school

[00:06:39] money.

[00:06:40] It's causing public school students to leave public

[00:06:43] schools and go to charter schools or to get vouchers to

[00:06:46] go to private schools.

[00:06:48] And it's depleting public education funds and it's

[00:06:53] bastardizing the school system.

[00:06:55] There's a line of thinking and a feeling that's very strong, I

[00:07:00] think, because of everything that you've laid out, Mike

[00:07:03] Talbert, is that that is driving this issue with the

[00:07:08] closing of some of these schools, which has become the

[00:07:11] third rail because those school, at least I know four

[00:07:14] of them that are on the block to be merged or some of

[00:07:18] the schools that have been neighborhood schools.

[00:07:21] And we know how that is when you touch them, but they've

[00:07:24] been top of the line.

[00:07:25] So you're taking two or three, four, four of the top

[00:07:29] elementary schools, maybe combining them into two, which

[00:07:34] is really going to cause, which is causing a problem.

[00:07:37] So to your point, Mike Talbert, it is all related.

[00:07:41] I think that's the, to me, that's going to be the

[00:07:44] first issue he's got to deal with is when the

[00:07:47] school board looks at closing these schools, the

[00:07:50] issue that I do think that we need to be thinking about,

[00:07:54] which I've not, maybe you want to be all know that is

[00:07:57] that my understanding was some of the schools that

[00:08:00] were in the really in the Northwest quadra, some of

[00:08:05] the areas that have been in most need of rebuilding

[00:08:10] renovation, whatever you want to call it with the

[00:08:12] price of everything growing up.

[00:08:15] Are those schools still in line to be brought up to

[00:08:18] standards?

[00:08:19] And I have not heard that.

[00:08:20] Maybe you all have, but that's been one of the

[00:08:22] issues to me that it's really, it goes back to

[00:08:28] the promises made and the promise is not kept in

[00:08:31] certain parts of this community.

[00:08:33] And that bothers me more than they.

[00:08:35] Well, you know, and we brought this up to Lori

[00:08:37] Hershey when she was on the program a few weeks ago.

[00:08:39] And we said, is there a list of these different

[00:08:42] projects and in what order are they going to be

[00:08:45] similar to what was done with the better Jacksonville

[00:08:47] plan where city council had a list of every project

[00:08:50] that the BJP was going to address and in what

[00:08:53] order.

[00:08:54] And as you guys may remember, and I think our

[00:08:56] audience will probably as well is that there were

[00:08:58] a number of projects that were below the line.

[00:09:02] And it was stated at the time by the

[00:09:04] administration, by Delaney's administration that

[00:09:06] we're not going to be able to do those that

[00:09:09] are below the line unless those that are above

[00:09:13] the line come in less expensively than what we

[00:09:16] are estimating the cost to be.

[00:09:18] And if one of them dropped off or if there was

[00:09:20] money left over after doing the front above the

[00:09:24] line projects, then the next first one below the

[00:09:27] line would come up and would be one that would

[00:09:29] be addressed.

[00:09:30] We have not done that with the schools.

[00:09:32] Well, I don't know if that's true, Mike

[00:09:34] Beller.

[00:09:35] I don't know that that's true.

[00:09:37] To get the half penny sales tax, they had

[00:09:39] that had to be done just like Delaney did it

[00:09:42] with the better Jacksonville plan.

[00:09:44] And there's a there's a I think it's a 20

[00:09:46] person citizens committee that meets on a

[00:09:49] regular basis to review progress and to check

[00:09:52] those things.

[00:09:53] So that's that that's I don't think that

[00:09:55] that's a true statement that there's not a

[00:09:57] list.

[00:09:57] They they pretty much know exactly what they

[00:10:00] want to try to do.

[00:10:01] They don't have the money to do it now.

[00:10:04] Well, that that I think is the question at

[00:10:06] least in my mind is you all know this.

[00:10:10] We're like.

[00:10:12] Is it?

[00:10:14] Two billion one.

[00:10:15] I can't remember what the penny sales

[00:10:17] access, but there was supposed to be.

[00:10:20] Or is more not.

[00:10:21] I think it was a billion or a billion and

[00:10:22] a half.

[00:10:23] I think it was a billion and a half.

[00:10:24] Right.

[00:10:25] And so and we're I think we talked about

[00:10:28] this before it was in the paper that is

[00:10:31] now looking that if we do everything that's

[00:10:33] on the list as you were talking about,

[00:10:35] that number would go to three billion, which

[00:10:38] is one of the reasons why the reason

[00:10:40] dropped.

[00:10:41] So to your point, you know what gets

[00:10:46] dropped off?

[00:10:47] I don't I don't know that because we

[00:10:49] don't know that somebody doesn't know.

[00:10:52] I mean, I can't imagine that they're

[00:10:54] just sitting that.

[00:10:55] How do they know how much more they

[00:10:56] need if they don't know what they got

[00:10:57] on their list?

[00:10:59] You know, it's not it didn't come out

[00:11:01] of thin air.

[00:11:02] And so I and I and I know that

[00:11:06] committee meets on a regular basis to

[00:11:08] review these things.

[00:11:09] Now, maybe the school board could do a

[00:11:11] better job and the school system could

[00:11:14] do a better job of communicating what's

[00:11:16] going on with those projects and with

[00:11:19] that half billion than they have.

[00:11:21] I don't know why.

[00:11:22] And I don't know if that's a good

[00:11:23] statement or not because I don't know

[00:11:24] what they've been doing or not been

[00:11:25] doing.

[00:11:26] But but but certainly you can't there's

[00:11:28] no way to over communicate with the

[00:11:30] public.

[00:11:31] You just can't over communicate.

[00:11:33] So so whatever they're doing, they

[00:11:34] may even overstep it up a little bit.

[00:11:36] Let me let me ask you this, Mike,

[00:11:38] since you brought it up, Mike, Mike

[00:11:39] Tolbert, you brought it up.

[00:11:42] I consider myself to be somewhat of a

[00:11:44] news junkie and I'm normally staying

[00:11:46] up with everything that I possibly can.

[00:11:48] But I don't recall reading much at

[00:11:50] all about the state's involvement with

[00:11:54] the candidates that were that were

[00:11:58] in line to possibly become our

[00:12:00] superintendent.

[00:12:01] You mentioned that Bernier does have

[00:12:03] a close relationship, I guess, with

[00:12:05] the governor and with Manny Diaz and

[00:12:07] the Department of Education.

[00:12:09] But I, to be perfectly blunt with you,

[00:12:12] this is the first time I've actually

[00:12:13] really heard that.

[00:12:15] Well, I understand my understanding

[00:12:17] is and I may be incorrect that that

[00:12:20] Diaz wrote a letter of

[00:12:21] recommendation.

[00:12:22] And actually, Mike Miller, that

[00:12:24] my recollection is that is one of

[00:12:27] the things that that the people

[00:12:30] who some of the stronger supporters

[00:12:32] of this fellow, one of the reasons

[00:12:34] they they thought he ought to be

[00:12:35] the superintendent is because of

[00:12:37] his close connections with Diaz

[00:12:39] and the governor's office.

[00:12:41] All right, let's go on and talk

[00:12:42] about that special committee that's

[00:12:43] appointed by the council president,

[00:12:45] Ron Salem, to examine the efficacy

[00:12:47] of the downtown investment authority

[00:12:50] and also to try to put some kind

[00:12:53] of emphasis on how do we want to

[00:12:56] look at downtown investment and

[00:12:58] how do we want to attack that?

[00:13:02] Mr. Hightower, you've got that

[00:13:03] one. You do you want to give us

[00:13:05] some more of your thinking on that

[00:13:07] one?

[00:13:08] That's right.

[00:13:09] Well, I'm not sure I'm able to

[00:13:11] give you much insight, but here's

[00:13:13] one understanding.

[00:13:15] When President Salem announced the

[00:13:17] committee, he said that since

[00:13:19] the DIA was created by Mayor

[00:13:22] Alvin Brown in 2012, the

[00:13:25] progress of downtown development

[00:13:27] has been and I quote,

[00:13:30] debatable at best, not good.

[00:13:33] Now, when DIA CEO,

[00:13:36] Lori Borea was on our show,

[00:13:39] Mights on Mights, some time back.

[00:13:42] If I remember, guys, she painted

[00:13:44] a pretty rosy picture that

[00:13:45] highlights the success of the

[00:13:48] new residents living downtown.

[00:13:50] Right after her appearance, we

[00:13:51] learned that most of all the

[00:13:53] tall buildings being planned were

[00:13:55] either delayed or strapped.

[00:13:58] Then we had Dr.

[00:14:00] Wayne Wood on afterwards.

[00:14:01] She talked about saving the

[00:14:03] historic buildings in downtown,

[00:14:05] particularly the lower street

[00:14:07] trio and from city hall to

[00:14:09] the river.

[00:14:10] We got a picture from him of

[00:14:12] the system that was out of

[00:14:13] whack with attention and all

[00:14:17] the wrong places.

[00:14:20] What do you think this committee

[00:14:21] is going to accomplish?

[00:14:23] And I think, I mean, I

[00:14:25] don't know what you're going

[00:14:26] to accomplish if you don't know

[00:14:27] what the problem is and what

[00:14:29] according to we got you guys

[00:14:32] at least two who are saying

[00:14:33] something bad going on and you

[00:14:35] got Lori as the CEO of DIA

[00:14:37] saying everything's going on.

[00:14:39] So I know where we are,

[00:14:43] gentlemen, to be honest with

[00:14:44] you.

[00:14:45] Mr. Tolbert, what's your take

[00:14:47] on this?

[00:14:47] Well, yeah, you know, there

[00:14:49] is, and Tytal was kind of

[00:14:52] hitting around it.

[00:14:53] There seems to be more

[00:14:54] questions than there are

[00:14:56] answers.

[00:14:57] One of the big issues that

[00:14:59] most people seem to agree on

[00:15:02] is that Jacksonville's

[00:15:03] definition of downtown is

[00:15:05] just way too damn big.

[00:15:08] It seems to be a group

[00:15:11] growing that believes instead

[00:15:13] of having the emphasis from

[00:15:15] that includes Brooklyn and

[00:15:18] San Marco, all these other

[00:15:20] places, the South Bank,

[00:15:21] that it ought to be shrunk

[00:15:22] to focus on the historic

[00:15:25] district in downtown,

[00:15:27] which would primarily be

[00:15:29] getting at the city hall

[00:15:31] building there, which is

[00:15:33] what used to be a May

[00:15:34] Coins and coming down

[00:15:37] Laura Street to the river,

[00:15:38] which would take in the

[00:15:39] Laura Street Prio and other

[00:15:41] really important Snyder

[00:15:43] Memorial Church, other

[00:15:45] historic buildings.

[00:15:46] There's a big effort to do

[00:15:47] that.

[00:15:50] And there seems to be a

[00:15:52] lingering concern that

[00:15:55] not going to go away anytime

[00:15:56] soon, that what in the

[00:15:59] hell is going on with the

[00:16:01] former landing site down on

[00:16:03] the river?

[00:16:04] Is it going to be a public

[00:16:06] park that people can come

[00:16:07] to and enjoy?

[00:16:09] Or is it going to be a

[00:16:10] park with a restaurant on

[00:16:12] the river and a big

[00:16:13] 40-story office building

[00:16:16] on one end of it?

[00:16:17] What is it going to be?

[00:16:18] When are they going to

[00:16:18] decide that?

[00:16:19] And how in the hell are

[00:16:20] they going to move that

[00:16:21] project forward?

[00:16:23] And then finally, I'm

[00:16:24] wondering at this

[00:16:25] committee if they really

[00:16:26] will get into the tenure

[00:16:28] of Laurie Boyer and look

[00:16:30] at what she's accomplished

[00:16:32] or not accomplished and

[00:16:33] what the future of the

[00:16:34] DIA is and should the

[00:16:35] DIA be changed around

[00:16:38] it all?

[00:16:38] So they've got a lot of

[00:16:39] work cut out for them.

[00:16:41] We'll see sooner than

[00:16:44] later what they plan to

[00:16:46] do and how they're going

[00:16:47] to move forward if they

[00:16:48] move forward.

[00:16:49] Well, now, Mike

[00:16:50] Hallberg, you've been

[00:16:51] around City Hall a lot

[00:16:53] closer than a lot of us,

[00:16:55] but you know, President

[00:16:57] Salem is what in his last

[00:17:00] 30 days there about being

[00:17:02] City Council President.

[00:17:05] And when the City Council

[00:17:06] President gets it, they

[00:17:07] come in with their own

[00:17:08] priorities.

[00:17:10] I'm wondering, is this

[00:17:11] special committee going

[00:17:13] to be a top priority

[00:17:14] for the new president?

[00:17:17] Correct me if I'm wrong,

[00:17:18] but in council with

[00:17:20] Kevin Carrico right now

[00:17:22] heading the list to be

[00:17:23] vice president, and I

[00:17:25] think he's going to

[00:17:26] chair this committee.

[00:17:28] So I would assume while

[00:17:30] it may be violation of

[00:17:31] sunshine law that they

[00:17:33] have some kind of an

[00:17:34] agreement between Ron

[00:17:36] Salem, the current

[00:17:37] president, Kevin Carrico,

[00:17:39] the next vice president

[00:17:41] and the incoming

[00:17:44] president that they're

[00:17:47] going to mess with

[00:17:47] that committee.

[00:17:48] They're going to support

[00:17:49] that committee.

[00:17:49] I think Ron Salem

[00:17:51] probably had some kind of

[00:17:52] understanding of that

[00:17:53] before he embarked on

[00:17:54] this toward the end of

[00:17:56] his term.

[00:17:57] Well, for what it's worth,

[00:17:59] it said here that

[00:18:01] White wants to finish

[00:18:03] the job he started with

[00:18:04] Salem, the current

[00:18:05] president.

[00:18:07] At a March leadership

[00:18:08] meeting, White said

[00:18:09] that his goals would be

[00:18:10] to finish the Jaguars

[00:18:11] deal and solidify the

[00:18:13] plans for the

[00:18:14] construction of the new

[00:18:15] county jail.

[00:18:16] Those are the two top

[00:18:17] priorities that he said.

[00:18:19] He didn't say anything

[00:18:20] else about downtown

[00:18:21] infrastructure work or

[00:18:22] any of the development

[00:18:23] or any of that sort.

[00:18:24] Just those two items,

[00:18:25] which, of course, are

[00:18:26] the two biggest ticket

[00:18:27] items that we're facing

[00:18:29] as a community with

[00:18:30] multi-billion dollars

[00:18:32] of investments that go

[00:18:33] into each one of those.

[00:18:34] So we may have to wait

[00:18:35] to hear about others.

[00:18:36] Yeah, we're talking

[00:18:38] about possibly index

[00:18:39] those for two billion

[00:18:41] dollars.

[00:18:41] So I would imagine

[00:18:43] that that should be

[00:18:44] a top priority.

[00:18:46] One, how we going to

[00:18:47] pay for it?

[00:18:47] Two, when are they going

[00:18:48] to get built?

[00:18:49] When are they going to

[00:18:51] get built?

[00:18:51] So well, the politics,

[00:18:54] politics, politics

[00:18:56] being what they are.

[00:18:59] I cannot imagine

[00:19:00] Council President

[00:19:01] Ron Salem.

[00:19:04] Announcing and starting

[00:19:05] this initiative

[00:19:07] toward the end of his

[00:19:08] term, if there was

[00:19:10] not some understanding

[00:19:12] by the incoming

[00:19:13] president who has been

[00:19:14] his vice president

[00:19:16] and the incoming

[00:19:17] vice president,

[00:19:18] that this project will go on.

[00:19:20] Otherwise, they would

[00:19:20] have stopped it already.

[00:19:22] I believe I don't think

[00:19:23] they would have just

[00:19:24] created it,

[00:19:25] done all this fanfare

[00:19:26] than to simply

[00:19:27] shut the track down

[00:19:28] and tell the train

[00:19:29] to go away.

[00:19:31] Well, let's hope

[00:19:32] we get the dress,

[00:19:33] because I mean,

[00:19:34] how many months

[00:19:36] and years have we been

[00:19:37] talking about

[00:19:38] getting downtown,

[00:19:40] get it started

[00:19:41] and get it put in?

[00:19:43] You know, let's get it

[00:19:44] a smart plug.

[00:19:45] You know, we got

[00:19:46] jumpstarted.

[00:19:48] Been going on

[00:19:50] for many months,

[00:19:51] but let's just hope

[00:19:52] hopefully this committee

[00:19:53] is going to look at it.

[00:19:55] I think that's a hell of

[00:19:56] a statement, though,

[00:19:57] for him to say,

[00:19:59] for Salem to say

[00:20:01] downtown is debatable

[00:20:03] as this.

[00:20:04] I think you're right,

[00:20:05] Mike Colbert.

[00:20:06] That's strong words.

[00:20:07] And if,

[00:20:11] you know,

[00:20:11] Randy White is going to

[00:20:12] finish up with Salem

[00:20:13] dead, then,

[00:20:14] you know,

[00:20:15] maybe

[00:20:16] we'll get a definition

[00:20:17] of what debatable

[00:20:18] at best is

[00:20:19] or how we're going to

[00:20:20] rectify it.

[00:20:21] Let's talk about the stadium.

[00:20:23] Mayor Deegan of Jaguars

[00:20:25] have had community huddles

[00:20:27] to explain the 1.4

[00:20:29] billion dollar deal

[00:20:31] and allow citizens

[00:20:32] to ask questions

[00:20:34] from reports in the media.

[00:20:36] Everything seems to be

[00:20:37] very fairly,

[00:20:37] and there's not

[00:20:39] there doesn't seem to be

[00:20:40] a lot of pushback

[00:20:41] or hostility

[00:20:42] to the taxpayer investing

[00:20:44] at least the number

[00:20:45] that got rolled out

[00:20:46] somewhere around

[00:20:48] from our perspective,

[00:20:50] city anyway,

[00:20:50] of seven hundred fifty

[00:20:52] million dollars.

[00:20:54] It kind of reminds me

[00:20:55] the difference Mike

[00:20:56] Colbert when we were

[00:20:58] involved with our jacks

[00:20:59] when

[00:21:02] a lot came up

[00:21:03] and the mayor

[00:21:04] and the Jaguars

[00:21:05] floated out

[00:21:06] the lot,

[00:21:06] Jay proposal.

[00:21:07] And it was rather

[00:21:09] embarrassing for the Jaguars.

[00:21:10] If I remember correctly,

[00:21:11] the the mayor kept saying

[00:21:13] that he had 10 votes

[00:21:14] and if I remember correctly,

[00:21:17] gentlemen, Mr.

[00:21:18] Tolbert knew

[00:21:19] a number of hours

[00:21:20] before anybody else says

[00:21:21] that the magnificent seven

[00:21:24] there were not the votes

[00:21:25] there for a lot, Jay.

[00:21:26] So, you know,

[00:21:28] it seems like we're on

[00:21:29] a better positive track

[00:21:30] between this administration

[00:21:32] and a partnership

[00:21:33] with the Jags

[00:21:34] as opposed to the former

[00:21:36] administration.

[00:21:37] But again,

[00:21:40] you know,

[00:21:40] so it's a lot of money

[00:21:42] out there.

[00:21:42] So

[00:21:44] I think that by the community

[00:21:46] conversations

[00:21:47] that the Jaguars are having now,

[00:21:50] I think it's totally different

[00:21:51] than what happened before.

[00:21:52] I think we're

[00:21:53] yet we're in a better place.

[00:21:56] Mike Miller,

[00:21:57] you were at one of those.

[00:21:58] I think you were at the first

[00:22:00] community huddle

[00:22:01] and that my thing was

[00:22:03] that Mark Lamping,

[00:22:04] who is the face of the Jaguars,

[00:22:06] did a great job,

[00:22:08] which is, I think,

[00:22:09] one of the outcomes

[00:22:10] from the debacle of Lachey

[00:22:13] is that Mark Lamping

[00:22:14] heard from a number

[00:22:15] of city officials

[00:22:16] and city leaders.

[00:22:17] Mark, you need to be

[00:22:19] out there talking

[00:22:20] because no lead

[00:22:21] out of it better than you.

[00:22:22] So would you not agree

[00:22:23] that this first huddle was good

[00:22:25] and Mark Lamping

[00:22:26] did a great job?

[00:22:27] Yeah, he did.

[00:22:28] In fact,

[00:22:29] so so did Mike Weinstein

[00:22:30] and the mayor for that matter.

[00:22:31] All three of them

[00:22:32] did a great job.

[00:22:33] But keep in mind, though,

[00:22:34] they were in front

[00:22:35] of a very friendly audience.

[00:22:37] They were in my area.

[00:22:39] They were at FSCJ

[00:22:40] on Bay Meadows.

[00:22:43] And so that was a pretty

[00:22:44] friendly crowd.

[00:22:45] What I do understand

[00:22:46] is the second huddle

[00:22:47] was up in the north

[00:22:48] and western area.

[00:22:50] I'm trying to recall

[00:22:51] and I apologize

[00:22:52] for not remembering

[00:22:52] exactly where it was,

[00:22:53] but it was at a community

[00:22:55] center in northwest.

[00:22:56] And the crowd

[00:22:57] was not nearly as supportive

[00:22:59] as they were

[00:23:00] at the meeting

[00:23:01] that I was attending.

[00:23:02] And from what I understand,

[00:23:04] the the biggest issue

[00:23:05] that was raised

[00:23:06] at that second meeting

[00:23:07] that I didn't attend

[00:23:09] had to do more

[00:23:10] with the community

[00:23:10] benefits agreement

[00:23:11] than it did

[00:23:12] with the actual money

[00:23:13] that would be spent

[00:23:14] on the on the stadium itself.

[00:23:16] But we all have to keep in mind

[00:23:18] that City Council

[00:23:20] has not yet seen

[00:23:21] the full bill,

[00:23:22] I don't believe.

[00:23:23] Aren't there something

[00:23:24] like seven separate

[00:23:25] pieces of legislation

[00:23:26] that make up this package

[00:23:28] and that they're going

[00:23:29] to have to vote

[00:23:29] on all seven of them?

[00:23:31] The stadium finances

[00:23:34] is just one aspect

[00:23:36] of this thing.

[00:23:37] Then you get in

[00:23:38] the community

[00:23:38] benefits agreement

[00:23:39] and other things

[00:23:40] that are part of,

[00:23:41] I believe, separate

[00:23:42] legislation.

[00:23:43] And of course,

[00:23:44] there is no legislation

[00:23:45] currently for the development

[00:23:48] around the stadium.

[00:23:49] Remember, that was

[00:23:50] in the initial proposal

[00:23:52] that there would be

[00:23:52] the stadium renovation

[00:23:53] and then the development,

[00:23:56] what I call Lot J Max,

[00:23:58] that was going to take place

[00:23:59] around the stadium,

[00:24:00] outside of that stadium.

[00:24:02] So that's not

[00:24:03] in the current legislation

[00:24:05] from any of the bills

[00:24:06] that I understand,

[00:24:07] though I've not seen them yet

[00:24:09] and I'm hoping to get

[00:24:09] a summary of them

[00:24:11] or a copy of them to read.

[00:24:12] But it's hundreds

[00:24:13] of pages long.

[00:24:14] So I have a feeling

[00:24:15] a lot of city council members

[00:24:17] are going to come back

[00:24:17] and say, well,

[00:24:18] the devil's in the details.

[00:24:19] Let's take a look

[00:24:20] and see all the legislation

[00:24:22] when it comes to us first.

[00:24:23] And then I'll have

[00:24:24] a better idea of whether

[00:24:26] or not I can support it.

[00:24:27] But in general,

[00:24:28] there's no question

[00:24:29] they want to do the stadium.

[00:24:30] They understand they have to.

[00:24:31] I get a sense that

[00:24:34] even though this is not

[00:24:35] a true statement,

[00:24:36] that it seems to me like

[00:24:37] it's pretty much

[00:24:39] a done deal.

[00:24:41] You know, the mayor

[00:24:43] laid out a schedule

[00:24:44] for negotiations

[00:24:46] and she kept that train

[00:24:47] running on time.

[00:24:50] They said a while ago,

[00:24:52] you can't over

[00:24:53] communicate with the public.

[00:24:55] And it looks like to me

[00:24:57] the mayor's office

[00:24:58] and the Jaguars

[00:25:00] are really communicating.

[00:25:02] And I go back

[00:25:02] to what Hightower said

[00:25:04] about Lye Jay.

[00:25:07] I mean, they totally

[00:25:08] butch that.

[00:25:09] And then now they've taken

[00:25:11] they've learned to take

[00:25:12] a different approach,

[00:25:13] which they did with the

[00:25:14] with the hotel

[00:25:17] and it works for them.

[00:25:18] They call this the second.

[00:25:19] This is the second

[00:25:20] go round of huddles.

[00:25:21] They did huddles around

[00:25:22] the hotel over there

[00:25:23] on the river.

[00:25:26] And I don't say

[00:25:27] I don't sense any kind

[00:25:29] of public organized

[00:25:31] opposition to this yet.

[00:25:33] And I would have thought by now

[00:25:34] if there was going to be

[00:25:35] an effort to derail it,

[00:25:37] it would have raised his head.

[00:25:40] So I haven't seen any of that.

[00:25:43] And nobody on the council

[00:25:45] at this point has suggested

[00:25:46] that it should go

[00:25:47] to a public referendum,

[00:25:49] even though that recent poll

[00:25:51] from UNF said that 74 percent

[00:25:54] or 72 percent of the voters

[00:25:56] would rather have it

[00:25:57] on a referendum.

[00:25:59] And the mayor,

[00:26:00] of course, is dug in and said,

[00:26:01] that's not going to happen

[00:26:02] on her wife because she was

[00:26:04] elected to make

[00:26:05] the tough decisions.

[00:26:06] So I just think this thing

[00:26:09] I'm not like you, Mike Miller.

[00:26:11] I see this thing going

[00:26:12] keeping on schedule

[00:26:13] and moving along

[00:26:15] no matter how many bills they have.

[00:26:17] Well, I think at the end

[00:26:18] of the day, it's going to pass.

[00:26:20] And I hope it does

[00:26:20] to be perfectly honest with you

[00:26:22] because I'm not sure

[00:26:23] we really have a choice.

[00:26:24] And that has been stated

[00:26:25] time and time again,

[00:26:26] even at the huddle

[00:26:27] that I was at.

[00:26:28] It was brought up

[00:26:29] at least twice, if not three times

[00:26:31] that we really don't have a choice

[00:26:33] in this if we want to keep

[00:26:34] the Jaguars.

[00:26:34] That's what it is.

[00:26:35] But there's another

[00:26:37] very interesting argument,

[00:26:38] which I think is going to make

[00:26:40] an impact.

[00:26:41] And I'm starting to hear it

[00:26:42] more and more now on the news.

[00:26:44] And that is that even if we

[00:26:46] didn't do this deal,

[00:26:48] we still have to come up

[00:26:49] with one hundred and fifty

[00:26:50] million dollars

[00:26:51] to make improvements

[00:26:53] with the stadium

[00:26:53] in its current condition

[00:26:55] for it to be able to stay viable

[00:26:58] for our next number of years.

[00:27:00] So they're kind of saying

[00:27:02] we can either do the whole thing

[00:27:03] and take it in one big bite

[00:27:05] or we may have to do it

[00:27:06] in bite sized pieces

[00:27:08] by spending one hundred

[00:27:08] and fifty million dollars

[00:27:09] to bring it up to code

[00:27:11] and then whatever other

[00:27:13] costs that are going to go into it.

[00:27:14] But I think at the end of the day,

[00:27:16] it's going to pass.

[00:27:17] Yeah, gentlemen,

[00:27:18] if you all remember when we had

[00:27:20] when we had Mike Corrigan

[00:27:23] on last week,

[00:27:24] remember he made the comment?

[00:27:25] He said, you know,

[00:27:26] he was on the council

[00:27:27] when it first came up

[00:27:28] and he said, you know,

[00:27:29] we made that decision

[00:27:30] 30 years ago

[00:27:31] that we wanted this

[00:27:32] that we wanted the Jaguars.

[00:27:34] And so 30 years later,

[00:27:35] it's we've we've got to finish

[00:27:38] and step up

[00:27:39] and make the second commitment.

[00:27:41] So I think to Mike Tolbert's

[00:27:44] comment,

[00:27:45] I think that the

[00:27:46] Mark Lamping and the mayor

[00:27:49] have done, I think,

[00:27:50] today have done

[00:27:51] an incredible job of going out there.

[00:27:54] And as Mike Tolbert says,

[00:27:56] at least give people a chance to

[00:27:58] hear, hear their complaints,

[00:28:00] hear their thoughts.

[00:28:01] But at the end of the day,

[00:28:03] you know, it's up to the people

[00:28:05] in the decision making,

[00:28:06] which I guess is the mayor

[00:28:07] and the city council.

[00:28:08] And I totally agree with Mike Tolbert.

[00:28:10] You can't over communicate

[00:28:12] with the public.

[00:28:13] It's when you try to keep them out

[00:28:17] and you that that's

[00:28:19] when you get in trouble.

[00:28:19] And then to the point

[00:28:21] both for the hotel

[00:28:22] and with this

[00:28:24] and with the Jaguar stadium,

[00:28:26] Mark Lamping and the mayor

[00:28:28] and Mike Weinstein,

[00:28:29] every they've been out there

[00:28:30] talking with people to you.

[00:28:32] You know, that's how you do it.

[00:28:34] Successfully.

[00:28:35] Well, between now

[00:28:36] and the time the stadium

[00:28:37] deal gets to council,

[00:28:39] we're going to have

[00:28:39] plenty more discussion on this.

[00:28:40] In fact, over the next three weeks,

[00:28:42] we're going to be talking

[00:28:43] about the stadium.

[00:28:43] Our guest next week

[00:28:45] is Times Union reporter

[00:28:46] David Bauerlein.

[00:28:47] David has been covering the Jaguars

[00:28:49] in this whole stadium

[00:28:50] deal since day one.

[00:28:52] We're going to be getting

[00:28:53] his overview of it,

[00:28:54] and perhaps we'll learn a lot more

[00:28:56] about some of the other legislation

[00:28:58] that's going to be

[00:28:58] accompanying the original bill.

[00:29:00] And then in the third week,

[00:29:02] we're going to have Jaguars

[00:29:04] president Mark Lamping here with us.

[00:29:06] We're still working on week two,

[00:29:08] but over the next three programs,

[00:29:10] we're going to be focusing

[00:29:11] on the stadium deal.

[00:29:12] So we hope you'll be watching

[00:29:14] and listening to each one of those.

[00:29:16] And don't forget to catch our podcast

[00:29:18] on our Facebook page

[00:29:19] on our website,

[00:29:20] Mike's on Mike dot com

[00:29:21] or, of course, wherever

[00:29:22] you catch your favorite podcasts.

[00:29:24] Again, our thanks

[00:29:24] to the Jacksonville

[00:29:25] Historical Society.

[00:29:26] And we'll see you again next week.

[00:29:28] Thanks for joining us.

[00:29:30] Mike's on Mike with Mike Tolbert,

[00:29:32] Mike Hightower and Mike Miller

[00:29:34] can be found on your favorite

[00:29:35] podcasting platform,

[00:29:37] Facebook and YouTube.

[00:29:38] Visit the website at Mike's on Mike dot com.

[00:29:42] Join us next time

[00:29:43] for more conversation

[00:29:44] with Mike's on Mike.