Unpacking Duval County's Loaded Ballot: What You Need to Know Before Voting with Dr. Michael Binder

[00:00:01] Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike

[00:00:03] Mike's on Mic, a conversation about politics, government, and Jacksonville with 50-year opinion leaders Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert, and award-winning broadcaster and longtime political observer, Mike Miller.

[00:00:18] Welcome to another episode of Mike's on Mic. I'm Mike Miller along with Mike Hightower and Mike Tolbert, and we're doing today's broadcast live from the Jacksonville History Center.

[00:00:26] And if you haven't been here before, you really should take the time to come here and take a look at this place. It's fantastic.

[00:00:33] Dr. Alan Bliss has done a great job in putting together so much history of the city of Jacksonville, which is really one of the prime reasons he's one of our great sponsors here of the program, along with the donors who keep their cameras rolling and the lights light.

[00:00:48] Our guest today, once again, is Dr. Michael Binder, professor at the Department of Political Science and Public Administration at the University of North Florida.

[00:00:56] Dr. Binder is also the Faculty Director of UNF's Public Opinion Research Laboratory, and anticipating the upcoming general election on November the 5th, we had planned to talk about the latest UNFO, which was to be released today.

[00:01:11] But thanks to Helene and Milton, unfortunately, those results are not ready yet, so we're going to have to wait for those.

[00:01:19] But we've got plenty of other things to talk about.

[00:01:21] Instead, we're going to be discussing some of the elections on the ballot that have local as well as statewide implications,

[00:01:27] including the five constitutional amendments, the state of political advertising,

[00:01:31] and what's at stake in the outcomes for Governor Ron DeSantis.

[00:01:35] Dr. Binder, as always, thank you very much for being with us.

[00:01:38] Thanks for having me.

[00:01:39] Good to be here.

[00:01:40] Welcome back.

[00:01:41] Thank you.

[00:01:41] Another mic.

[00:01:42] Let me start off by talking a little bit about the mechanics of polling.

[00:01:46] We were discussing this before.

[00:01:48] So many people now have cell phones, and then there are people like me who, if my cell phone rings

[00:01:53] and I don't know what the number is coming from, I just hit go to voicemail.

[00:01:58] Does this have a big impact on the telephone polling that you do as far as who's participating,

[00:02:04] and are you able to get the right size sample you need in order to satisfy the needs that you have?

[00:02:10] First, you're the problem with America.

[00:02:12] Thank you.

[00:02:12] Answer your phone, everybody.

[00:02:14] I know.

[00:02:14] That's the answer.

[00:02:16] There's our problem with my son.

[00:02:17] I know.

[00:02:18] He doesn't answer.

[00:02:19] Miller doesn't answer his phone.

[00:02:21] That's why.

[00:02:21] That's it.

[00:02:22] Guilty as charged.

[00:02:23] But you're right.

[00:02:24] Just to give you a sense, we're in the middle of calling right now.

[00:02:27] We've got 523 completes from across the state of Florida.

[00:02:30] In order to get those completes, we've dialed over 10,000 individual phone numbers, and we've

[00:02:37] dialed those numbers more than 17,000 times.

[00:02:39] So we've called people back a couple of times.

[00:02:40] Wow.

[00:02:41] So yes, it is difficult to get people on the phone.

[00:02:45] That is absolutely true.

[00:02:48] But the alternative, some of those are worse, right?

[00:02:52] Email surveys, how often do you open your email relative to picking up the phone?

[00:02:56] Even fewer.

[00:02:58] Panel surveys, which are popular now, are limited.

[00:03:01] They're not totally reflective of the population.

[00:03:04] Certainly not voting samples.

[00:03:06] There's a lot of bad options out there.

[00:03:08] I still think phone is the best, even though, sure, there are potential issues, and you really

[00:03:13] have to make sure that you're getting enough of the people with as much demographic information

[00:03:19] as you can that represent your population of interest.

[00:03:22] In this case, it's likely voters of the state of Florida.

[00:03:25] And I've got to think, just to follow up, I've got to think that with as many robocalls

[00:03:29] that we get and spam calls that we get, the problem has just got to be.

[00:03:35] Yeah, it's difficult.

[00:03:36] We battle regularly with the various phone companies because they sometimes label you

[00:03:41] as spam, so you've got to get off the spam list, so your phone call can at least try to

[00:03:45] get through, so you have an opportunity for somebody to pick it up.

[00:03:48] We do leave voicemails, though.

[00:03:49] Oh, of course.

[00:03:49] If we call you and we get kicked to your voicemail, hey, I'm Mike, calling from the University

[00:03:54] of New York, Florida, have a couple issues about state and local things to talk to you

[00:03:57] about, we'll try it back another time, then we give them a call back the next day.

[00:04:01] So hopefully that would, if somebody listens to their voicemail, which again, isn't a

[00:04:05] given, maybe they're more inclined to pick it up the next time around.

[00:04:09] But no, it's not easy, and it's getting harder with all of these things.

[00:04:12] Mike's not the only one, because I've been hacked now twice, and so I have a snake that

[00:04:18] text.

[00:04:19] Text is another word.

[00:04:20] Sure.

[00:04:21] If I don't know the number, I won't go there.

[00:04:23] And these are all difficulties with communications.

[00:04:26] As it's become easier for us to communicate with people, it's become harder for us to reach

[00:04:31] people.

[00:04:32] Interesting.

[00:04:33] Yeah.

[00:04:33] Let me ask you, before we get into the races that we're going to talk about, I want to talk

[00:04:37] to you about the political climate around these 2024 elections.

[00:04:41] Mike, I'm old enough to remember Roger Stone and Chuck Colson and those guys with Nixon.

[00:04:48] And I used to have a t-shirt, I was telling them earlier, I used to have a t-shirt with

[00:04:53] a quote from Charles Colson that said, when you have them by the balls, their hearts and

[00:04:57] minds will fall.

[00:04:59] In some regards, it seems to me that what went on back then is mild.

[00:05:06] It looks like every place you look today, in every contested race, no matter where you

[00:05:10] live, that there's hate speech and there's just outright lies.

[00:05:14] My question is this, that's a two-question.

[00:05:18] Do you agree with me that we have a fluid political climate?

[00:05:21] And secondly, how does that impact election voters?

[00:05:25] What does that do to actual voting?

[00:05:28] You surprised me talking about Colson.

[00:05:29] I thought you were going to talk about the Andrew Jackson election and you were familiar

[00:05:32] with.

[00:05:34] No, he was not quite old.

[00:05:38] He was within a year.

[00:05:39] We're done.

[00:05:40] Thank you, Mike.

[00:05:41] Mike can come back.

[00:05:42] Mike, Dr. Bender can come back anytime you want.

[00:05:44] But you're right.

[00:05:46] I can't disagree with that.

[00:05:48] Yeah, it is a polluted political climate.

[00:05:50] It is bad.

[00:05:51] I don't want people to think, though, that this has always been handshakes and chummy

[00:05:57] chumminess.

[00:05:58] We did fight a war over political issues in this country.

[00:06:02] We are not at that point yet.

[00:06:04] So that's positive.

[00:06:05] I personally am not looking forward to another civil war.

[00:06:08] I don't want to get shot at.

[00:06:09] It's not appealing to me in the least.

[00:06:11] I would love for the temperature to be taken down because no matter who we are in this country,

[00:06:19] I fervently believe that we have more in common than we have that we disagree about.

[00:06:23] Sure.

[00:06:23] Oh, yes.

[00:06:24] And I think that's true.

[00:06:26] Yeah.

[00:06:27] The vast majority of people.

[00:06:29] Listen, there's going to be some crackpots on all sides of everything that are going to get in the way of everything.

[00:06:36] Or a survey.

[00:06:38] But you're right.

[00:06:39] What can we do about this?

[00:06:40] And I think some of this is to be pointed at elected leadership, right?

[00:06:45] They're the ones that are fueling into this.

[00:06:48] Now, are there reasons for that?

[00:06:50] Yes.

[00:06:51] Negative campaigning, and I was talking about this earlier today at another event, negative campaigning works, right?

[00:06:57] It drives up the stakes of an election so that you're more incentivized to vote.

[00:07:01] Now, it may not make you love the person that you're voting for, but it certainly could give you enough to hate the person you're voting against.

[00:07:10] And from a campaign's perspective, I don't care if you hate the other person, therefore you're voting for me, or you love me and you're voting for me.

[00:07:19] Anyway, that checkmark counts exactly the same thing, and that gets you elected, and that's vital.

[00:07:25] So, yeah, it would be great if it weren't the case, and you need leadership to help dial that back.

[00:07:33] That takes political leadership from both sides of the aisle, and it starts at the top, and it works its way down to the various state level and to the local level as well.

[00:07:43] Which it also takes what Chuck Colson was talking about.

[00:07:46] You've got to have the balls to do it.

[00:07:48] Sure, and you have to be willing to risk something, and that means potentially losing an election.

[00:07:52] Yeah.

[00:07:52] So, you're saying this is the new norm?

[00:07:55] I think it's the temporary new normal.

[00:07:57] I think there's a question about what happens in 2028 and who the standard bearers of the two parties are at that point, and what incentives are at play.

[00:08:09] So, let's hypothetically say, if Trump were to lose this election, what does that do with the Republican Party, him coming off essentially a string of three straight national defeats?

[00:08:19] Do they go in a different direction?

[00:08:20] Do they change tone?

[00:08:23] Or do they double and triple down on that and say, he just wasn't the right messenger.

[00:08:27] The message was right.

[00:08:28] He just wasn't the right.

[00:08:29] And then, I don't know is the answer.

[00:08:31] But you'd like to think that a more tempered political discourse would still engage people and would still get people to the polls and would still get people supporting candidates.

[00:08:44] Duval County, the ballot this year is loaded.

[00:08:48] It's everything from the president, soil and water, judicial, congressional, school board, plus five congressional constitutional limits.

[00:08:58] When you think about the ballot, if you've gotten to the ballot.

[00:09:01] The beaches have some ballot measures too, A.B. and Jack's Beach.

[00:09:04] So, what kind of turnout are you expecting?

[00:09:07] That's number one.

[00:09:08] Two, voter registration.

[00:09:10] Have you seen an increase on either party, three parties, Democrat, Republican, non-party, independent?

[00:09:17] I'm not sure which that is.

[00:09:19] And the other part, which we all have talked about, Mike, all of us, absentee ballot.

[00:09:26] And so, this is really what?

[00:09:28] More questions.

[00:09:29] Yeah, there's 100 questions.

[00:09:30] And so, I think looking locally, Duval hasn't seen quite the evolution in party registration that the state of Florida has seen.

[00:09:40] The state of Florida in the last four years has gone from a plus D state to plus R by five or six points.

[00:09:48] You bought that here.

[00:09:50] Yeah, it's shopped up.

[00:09:51] That's an enormous shift in a short amount of time.

[00:09:55] Duval's moved a point or two.

[00:09:57] It's not a big difference.

[00:09:59] It's absentee.

[00:10:00] No.

[00:10:01] Votes have been cast.

[00:10:02] Over 17,000 votes as of just the other day were cast in Duval County alone.

[00:10:07] A little over 8,000 to 6,000, a little Democratic advantage, which you tend to see with the mail voting post-2016.

[00:10:16] That's M-A-I-O.

[00:10:17] That is true.

[00:10:19] The stuff that comes from the post office.

[00:10:21] So, that's an important piece.

[00:10:23] It is different in Florida now with some of the laws that have been placed.

[00:10:26] You don't automatically get, you have to register every election cycle.

[00:10:30] It puts a little more onus on folks that are requesting mail ballots.

[00:10:33] So, if you haven't requested your mail ballot, you still have time.

[00:10:36] You can still do that.

[00:10:38] Or you can wait a couple days and vote early or vote in person and maybe vote on election day if you want to wait until the end.

[00:10:45] But as far as what turnout's going to look like, I think we're going to look closer to, although maybe not as much as a percentage of the electorate, to 2020.

[00:10:56] I think that we're going to look more like 2020 than we did, say, a 2022, where there was such a dispersion between Republican turnout and Democratic turnout.

[00:11:06] In 2022, when DeSantis swept the state as Big Red Wave in Florida, it wasn't because everybody decided to vote Republican.

[00:11:13] It wasn't because every single Republican showed up.

[00:11:17] About 65-ish percent of Republicans voted in 2022, which is not atypical for those midterm elections.

[00:11:26] The problem was 49% of Democrats turned out in 2022.

[00:11:31] That's not going to be the case this November.

[00:11:34] In 2020, for example, in Florida, 81% of Republicans voted, 75% of Democrats voted.

[00:11:40] I think we're going to see something closer to that, almost two-thirds of NPAs voted.

[00:11:45] Those are numbers you can expect to see something close to that.

[00:11:49] Maybe not quite as high, but because there's some little more barriers to voting now, but up around that range.

[00:11:55] I could know this, but I don't.

[00:11:57] When you talked about registration off the top of your head, which are closer to it, what is the registration here in Duval County?

[00:12:04] As far as I think Dees are, they're plus a couple.

[00:12:07] I haven't looked at Duval, and then the NPAs are off a little bit from the two major parties.

[00:12:13] NPAs, though, moving up.

[00:12:14] Yeah, NPAs are moving up across the country.

[00:12:17] That's traditional.

[00:12:18] The thing with NPAs, this is always important to keep in mind, is, yeah, there's more of them, more than there ever have been, but they don't vote as frequently.

[00:12:28] And because they're not invested in the system, right?

[00:12:31] If you look out and you're like, I don't really like Democrats, I don't really like Republicans, and you go to the ballot and all you have are Democrats and Republicans, it's harder for you to get invested, to get that team identity, to say, yeah, I'm going to show up and waste my time voting.

[00:12:45] So they don't vote at nearly the same rate as Democrats or Republicans.

[00:12:47] And yet, when you hear the discourse that's going on, they're always talking about the undecided voter.

[00:12:55] And that's misleading.

[00:12:56] And there's so few undecided voters as far as who they'd vote for.

[00:13:02] I'm not saying there's none.

[00:13:03] There's exceptionally few.

[00:13:05] And what is undecided is whether or not you're going to get off the couch.

[00:13:09] That's who's undecided.

[00:13:11] And getting those folks to get up off the couch or keep people that might be more inclined to support your opponent on the couch is, in a lot of ways, particularly maybe what Trump is doing in his campaign and what a lot of campaigns are doing as well.

[00:13:26] What's your gut tell you?

[00:13:27] What do you think is out there?

[00:13:29] I think two things.

[00:13:30] So I think for the State of Florida, to think that the race is even close to the presidential level is ludicrous.

[00:13:36] I think-

[00:13:36] President and U.S. Senate.

[00:13:37] Yep.

[00:13:38] So I think if Harris can get it under seven or eight points, I think that's an enormous win for the Democrats in the state of Florida.

[00:13:44] I think it'll probably be closer to nine or ten.

[00:13:47] I also think polling we've done, polling we've seen so far in our current poll, and then nationally, the Republican Senate candidates are polling behind Trump across the country.

[00:13:59] So I think that trend will continue here, and Scott will poll behind Trump.

[00:14:04] I do not think that it's going to be enough for Mucasso Powell to get over the hump and win or even keep it within the margin of error.

[00:14:12] I think that race is probably closer to five or six points.

[00:14:16] Anything else?

[00:14:17] So there is some ballot measures that you might want to talk about at some point.

[00:14:21] Mr. Miller?

[00:14:22] Yeah.

[00:14:22] I do want to get into that.

[00:14:24] No, but I think those will be close, and I'd love to talk a little bit about both three and four, and even one a little bit.

[00:14:30] Your word, and we do want to get into that.

[00:14:32] Before I do, though, DeSantis has probably endorsed more candidates in this election than any of us could remember him doing previously.

[00:14:40] First of all, DeSantis doesn't have the same political juices he had prior to deciding to run for president.

[00:14:49] Certainly nothing close to what he had in 22 when he was reelected.

[00:14:53] So we've already seen in some of the primaries that both his endorsements and Trump's endorsements have not been all that successful.

[00:15:03] Do you expect that to be the same when it comes to the general election?

[00:15:07] So, yeah, he didn't have a good batting average, particularly with those school board races where he was pitted out of the park in 22.

[00:15:15] That really has come back, and he did not do well.

[00:15:18] Yeah.

[00:15:19] I think in a lot of the races that he's endorsed, at least not the school board races that are still being determined in the fall,

[00:15:27] but maybe some of the other state races, state house races and such, I think he's picked some safer seats.

[00:15:33] So I think his batting average is going to be a little bit better when Republicans beat Democrats.

[00:15:38] That being said, he's gambled a lot on the two ballot measures, particularly Amendment 4, the abortion amendment, less so Amendment 3, the marijuana one.

[00:15:48] But he has put a lot of personal political capital into these.

[00:15:53] And if they were to both win and pass at 60%, that would really put a ding in his armor.

[00:16:02] Now, do I think that it's going to impact him as much because maybe some of his candidates don't get elected at the state level?

[00:16:09] Probably not.

[00:16:09] I think his biggest weakness going forward is twofold.

[00:16:14] One, you mentioned it, right?

[00:16:15] Having lost a presidency, you've got this apex of unified power because a bunch of bumpkins in the middle of nowhere had their eye on a seat in D.C.

[00:16:23] So that's gone.

[00:16:25] Also, to think about, now that DeSantis is a lame duck come November 6th, you're going to start seeing active campaigns for governor.

[00:16:36] There isn't many people in the state legislature that are going to be wrangling for that spot and lining up their supporters.

[00:16:43] So you're not going to have nearly the same unanimity.

[00:16:46] Also, and this is something to keep an eye on, with that sweep to power, they got them super majorities in the state legislature in 22.

[00:16:55] At the state house level, all those seats are coming due.

[00:16:59] There's seven seats that Republicans are currently elected in where there's a Democrat registration advantage.

[00:17:04] They could lose those seats.

[00:17:06] And the Democrats can only need to pick up five seats to break the super majority.

[00:17:11] Now, they're still going to have a majority of Republicans.

[00:17:13] I don't want to pretend that's out the gate.

[00:17:14] But breaking the super majority in one of those houses can slow down debate and can slow down the ability that Republicans have to push through anything they want willy-nilly.

[00:17:24] So it'll certainly cause more problems in Tallahassee for the speed at which he wants to get things through.

[00:17:30] In a legislative session, it's only 60 days long.

[00:17:32] Add to that, apparently, the resentment from the White House to Ron DeSantis is continuing.

[00:17:41] You have the First Lady coming out and basically endorsing the abortion amendment that's on our ballot, number four.

[00:17:50] And you have the former president yesterday saying he's in favor of legalized marijuana.

[00:17:57] So you talk about two of the most really interesting issues that we're facing as voters in Florida.

[00:18:03] And you've got this battle of philosophy between the former president and his wife against Ron DeSantis.

[00:18:13] The question I was going to ask before we thought about that, whether or not the constitutional amendments for abortion and for marijuana would actually have a big impact on what happens in voting for candidates.

[00:18:28] Is that going to be the factor?

[00:18:31] So I do not think that the ballot measures will impact turnout during a presidential election.

[00:18:37] There's almost no historical evidence of that.

[00:18:39] Rare, small circumstances.

[00:18:42] Can anybody point to some kid who turned 19 and likes pot and decided to vote in this election for pot?

[00:18:48] Sure.

[00:18:48] But when it comes to serious turnout, like a percentage point or two or something like that, midterm elections is where you might see something like that.

[00:18:57] You're not going to see it in presidentials.

[00:18:59] As far as voting for candidates, I certainly think that you can vote for, say, yes on Amendment 4 and then turn around and vote for Trump.

[00:19:10] I don't necessarily think those two things are incongruent.

[00:19:13] And people regularly vote for candidates up and down the ballot that may not be entirely aligned on a variety of different things.

[00:19:21] I could be a Republican for a number of different reasons that have nothing to do with abortion and be extremely pro-choice and cast that.

[00:19:28] And vice versa.

[00:19:29] Same thing with marijuana.

[00:19:30] So I don't think that is going to swing Democrats maybe the way that Nikki Freed had hoped anyway.

[00:19:37] But yes, Trump coming out and, listen, Republicans are getting text messages on their phones with Trump endorsing three.

[00:19:43] We're getting mailers.

[00:19:45] Trump's on TV having endorsed three.

[00:19:47] Yep.

[00:19:47] That's something that is, in a lot of ways, really interesting because I think it has a much better chance of passing than Amendment 4 does.

[00:19:54] But the fact that DeSantis has put so much energy into 4 and is laying the groundwork for post-election legal challenges to signatures for 4 tells you that their internal polls are telling them that they're worried.

[00:20:10] Yeah, they're worried.

[00:20:11] That's what's really fascinating to me about that.

[00:20:13] And I would also add to that, I can't remember the last time that we have spent public money through government departments taking political positions.

[00:20:26] There is very...

[00:20:27] There's reasons why, because there is real questions about the legality.

[00:20:31] Exactly.

[00:20:32] Which will be deterred, I assume.

[00:20:34] After the fact.

[00:20:35] After.

[00:20:36] I'm ironically by people that he has appointed.

[00:20:38] Dr. Vender, I'm really interested in the two races, the state attorney down in central Florida and Hillsborough and Orlando through a call that Governor Sanders removed both of those duly elected Democratic state attorneys for whatever reasons I can't recall, but not good ones.

[00:20:54] And now they're both coming back and running against people that he appointed to take their place.

[00:21:02] You got any clue about what's going on down there and how that might come out?

[00:21:06] I don't.

[00:21:08] Aside from the politics around particularly the Ninth Circuit with Worrell in the Orlando area, that was really because the person that was appointed Bain is an NPA.

[00:21:22] So there was a Republican primary and a Democratic primary to the nominee of candidates and Worrell, the former state attorney general, or state attorney, won her Democratic primary.

[00:21:33] The Republican primary, the guy who lost to Republican primary claimed that he had been approached by the Republican party and offered him money to drop out, offered him opportunities for other jobs to drop out of the race.

[00:21:48] And he didn't.

[00:21:49] And he didn't.

[00:21:49] He continued on.

[00:21:50] He ended up losing the primary.

[00:21:51] And then the guy that won the primary, Hyman, dropped out of the race after the primary so that it's only the DeSantis appointed Baines and the Democrats so that they can gather all those Republican votes in order to get him to win.

[00:22:08] It's really backroom, sketchy politics around these seats, which is not traditionally the role of the governor to be involved so closely in the politics of these types of races.

[00:22:26] I do think both the candidates that lost have a pretty good chance at winning.

[00:22:31] They did win previous.

[00:22:32] They won the last time there was an election in those districts.

[00:22:34] And these districts haven't changed, right?

[00:22:36] These aren't the super gerrymandered House districts for Congress or for the state legislature.

[00:22:41] Those are very winnable seats for both of those.

[00:22:45] The Tampa state attorney general had been real.

[00:22:47] Yeah.

[00:22:48] Yeah.

[00:22:49] These people were, I would envision Warren winning too.

[00:22:53] I think these are really fascinating races.

[00:22:56] And the question is, how long does the status wait before he fires again?

[00:22:59] I was in the Tampa market and I see television commercials for the race going on in Orlando.

[00:23:06] But I don't recall seeing any commercials for the race going on in Hillsborough.

[00:23:11] I don't know why that is, but I may be wrong.

[00:23:15] I may have dismissed it, but I don't recall that.

[00:23:17] That's fascinating.

[00:23:17] Those two folks that he fired and then win again, plus his not so good batting average with school board.

[00:23:28] He goes into the legislature, really wounded.

[00:23:31] Sure.

[00:23:32] He's a lame duck anyhow.

[00:23:33] Yeah.

[00:23:34] Yeah.

[00:23:34] Right.

[00:23:34] But he's a lame duck with his eye on something else for 2028.

[00:23:39] I would fully envision if he, if amendment four were to come in at 59 point, that all he would do would be to be like, I saved abortion restrictions in Florida.

[00:23:54] Look at me.

[00:23:55] I can do this for the rest of America.

[00:23:56] That's what he would be pitching to Iowa Republicans in 2028.

[00:23:59] As most of, most everybody knows, of course, our school board elections are all nonpartisan.

[00:24:06] And if amendment one passes.

[00:24:08] Yes.

[00:24:09] It then will become partisan again, as it was a million years ago when I told her, well, when I went out in the Jackson race, they would, they were nonpartisan.

[00:24:18] They were not.

[00:24:19] Yeah, right.

[00:24:20] I haven't heard much about that at all.

[00:24:22] Is it because there's really not a big drive on one side or the other to have?

[00:24:27] There is a big drive on one side to have this pass.

[00:24:30] This is a Republican initiative because they think that attaching partisanship would make them more likely to win these races in a state that's growing towards the Republican Party.

[00:24:40] Is this the governor?

[00:24:42] It's the governor, but it's everybody down the line after that as well.

[00:24:46] Republicans understand that in a state where there's more Republicans every day, if you have an R next to your name, you're more advantaged than if you have a D after your name.

[00:24:54] That's just the way it is.

[00:24:56] That's going to do it for another episode of Mike's on Mike.

[00:24:58] Thank you all for joining us.

[00:25:00] And by the way, Dr. Binder, thank you for being with us again today.

[00:25:03] And Michael's going to be back with us.

[00:25:05] Yes.

[00:25:05] Following the November 5th election so we can talk about the results we hope we will know by then.

[00:25:11] We'll know Florida.

[00:25:12] We'll know Florida.

[00:25:13] And that's it.

[00:25:14] And then we'll have clips of what he thought was going to happen.

[00:25:17] Then we'll be there.

[00:25:18] So we're going to be recording a special program after the election that you will see the Monday following the election.

[00:25:23] And Dr. Binder will again be with us.

[00:25:25] Once again, we want to thank, of course, Dr. Alan Bliss and the fine folks at the History Center for having us here at their library to do the program.

[00:25:34] And we thank you all for joining us.

[00:25:36] Thanks again.

[00:25:37] We'll see you next week.

[00:25:38] Mike's on Mike with Mike Tolbert, Mike Hightower and Mike Miller can be found on your favorite podcasting platform, Facebook and YouTube.

[00:25:47] Visit the website at Mike's on Mike dot com.

[00:25:50] Join us next time for more conversation with Mike's on Mike.

[00:25:53] Mike.