What Really Happened in Bob Graham’s Political Career

[00:00:01] Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, Mike on Mic, A conversation about politics, government and Jacksonville with 50 year opinion leaders Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert and award winning broadcaster and longtime political observer Mike Miller.

[00:00:18] Welcome to another edition of Mikes on Mic. I'm Mike Miller in the studio with my colleagues Mike Tolbert and Mike Hightower checking in remotely and as always we start the program with gratitude to Alan Bliss and the fine folks at the Jacksonville High School.

[00:00:31] This is a historical society located in the Jacksonville History Center. This essential organization helps the people of Jacksonville preserve and share this big complicated city's many fascinating stories. Learn more at jackshistory.org. Thank you for your support of Mikes on Mic.

[00:00:48] Recently a giant among us passed away. The accolades, the praise, the memories expressed around the death of former governor and U.S. Senator Bob Graham have been voluminous. And there's good reason for that.

[00:00:58] Bob Graham is considered by many to be one of the greatest elected public servants and political leaders in Florida history. He was governor from 1978 to 1986 and served in the U.S. Senate for three terms. Nobody knew him better and very few were closer to Bob Graham than Jacksonville attorney Chris Hand, who's our guest this week.

[00:01:21] Chris went to work for Senator Graham's office 30 years ago as a fresh college graduate. He later became the senator's press aide. In 2009, Chris and Governor Graham co-wrote America the Owner's Manual making government work for you. And then it was rewritten in 2016 and it was entitled at that time,

[00:01:41] America the Owner's Manual, you can fight city hall and win. Upon Senator Graham's passing, Chris has acted as a spokesperson for the Graham family. And Chris, welcome to Mikes on Mic. I wish it would be under different circumstances but we're delighted to have you here for your familiarity with Bob Graham and because of the background that you bring to this. Thank you.

[00:02:03] Well Mike, I wish it was for different reasons as well but always great to spend time with the three Mikes and really appreciate the kind invitation to be here today.

[00:02:11] Welcome. Let me add mine to Miller's. You know right after Senator Graham passed away, I sent you an email with my condolences and you responded by saying both of us had the privilege to work for and become friends with elected officials who were both extraordinary leaders and people.

[00:02:31] I remember when I got the news that Mayor Godbolt had died and one of my most immediate thoughts was that Jacksonville and I both had lost our best friend. Take us back to the moment when you first learned that Senator Graham was gone. If you will share with us what went through your mind, what did you think and what did you do at that moment?

[00:02:55] Well, first of all Mike we share a lot in common as we talked about in that email given your close friendship with former Mayor Jake Godbolt. And you know I think grief is a process and there are many moments in that process.

[00:03:09] I think for me the initial reaction was of course an enormous sense of loss. This was someone who had been one of the most central figures in my life for the last 30 years. Both from when I started working, he was one of my first employers to what became a 30-year friendship.

[00:03:27] So of course like anybody you know feel an enormous sense of loss but sort of like what you said about Mayor Godbolt, you feel not only a sense of loss for yourself but also a sense of loss for the state and the country and the world.

[00:03:42] Not just of an extraordinary leader, Senator Graham was certainly that but also of an extraordinary person who just every day embodied the qualities of wisdom and thoughtfulness and humility and caring. Really an extraordinary person and human being but you know there's that moment and there's many more moments in the process going forward.

[00:04:03] As you know we had this past Friday Senator Graham he was in Lying in State at the Florida Historic Capital. There was a huge turnout of Floridians who came there and there were some moments there too.

[00:04:17] You know it's difficult to watch a good friend of yours be brought to the Capitol for the last time and then exit the Capitol for the last time. And I think there'll be a lot of moments like that, not just for me but for his family and for everyone in Florida who admired Bob Graham.

[00:04:33] This is a loss that will linger for a long time but one of the sort of I think statements about this sort of moment that you know kind of gives me comfort and I think gives everyone comfort as well.

[00:04:46] I think back to an old movie line where they said he's not really gone as long as you remember him and I think all of us who love Bob Graham and that's so many people, millions of people both in Florida around the country and all the way around the world.

[00:05:02] We now shift to that perspective. What do we remember about Senator Graham? How do we keep his memory alive, both his public accomplishments and also his incredible personal qualities and you'll see some of that there's going to be a memorial service in Miami Lakes on Saturday,

[00:05:17] May the 11th and that will truly be a celebration of his extraordinary life, his incredible accomplishments as an elected official and a leader but also his incredible traits as a human being. That was the key to Bob Graham. Great leader, tremendous human being and he will be greatly missed for all of those reasons.

[00:05:37] Chris, I also welcome and what a beautiful estimate and memorial and thoughts that you just gave Bob Graham. He was very blessed to have you in his life and I was 30 years. That's an incredible friendship as I shared with a couple of y'all before I knew him when he was governor and through my career at Blue Cross in Tallahassee and then when he became so.

[00:06:07] I remember that he was a senator and but to have you the relationship that you did is incredible but thank you for everything that you did in the way that you supported him.

[00:06:19] You know, thanks to Mark Wood in the time, Junior, we learned you as a young man, sir. We're working for the office of Senator Bill Bradley. And I remember you both went to Princeton.

[00:06:31] I'm sorry to start the New York Knicks. But then I noticed that you went to work for Bob Graham. I heard there was a notice so you have you're working for the Bill Bradley, Senator Bill Bradley. You're both at Princeton, both went to Princeton.

[00:06:46] Why did you want to go to work for Bob Graham?

[00:06:49] Well, first of all, Mike, thanks for your very kind words about about Senator Graham and for your work with him as well. As you said, I mean, you're everyone here on this episode today is someone who was touched in some way or interacted in some way with Bob Graham during his lifetime.

[00:07:07] So, you know, thank you to all of you for that. Mike, I grew up here in Florida was born in Jacksonville. I went to Fletcher High School. And so this is this is truly my home in Florida is truly my home.

[00:07:18] And so Bob Graham had really been the defining politician defining government leader sort of of my upbringing and my generation and really left an incredible mark.

[00:07:29] I remember being a young kid, you know, my I had grandparents who lived in in the Orlando area in Winter Park. And I remember watching local Orlando television one night when I was, you know, probably eight or nine years old.

[00:07:41] And there was Governor Graham doing one of his work days as the tour guide on the Jungle Cruise ride at the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World.

[00:07:50] From the minute I got to Washington and started pounding the pavement on Capitol Hill trying to find a job there. I started going to Senator Graham's office.

[00:08:00] Turns out they didn't have anything. So my first job, as you say, was with another great leader US Senator Bill Bradley from New Jersey and enjoyed being in his office for several months.

[00:08:10] But one day part of my duties in Senator Bradley's office where I was assigned to the press office when they had a vacancy there to help out his then Senator Bradley's then communications director.

[00:08:21] And one day I happened to be checking the printer in the office and someone had printed out a notice saying that Senator Graham's office was looking for a speechwriter.

[00:08:31] I don't know who printed that out, but I'd like to extend my apologies because I immediately grabbed that off the printer and basically sprinted.

[00:08:38] I'm not a particularly graceful person, but in one fluid motion grabbed it off the printer and basically sprinted to another floor on the Hartson office building to Senator Graham's office.

[00:08:48] And you know, saw his longtime office manager who had gotten to know during my many visits asking if they had any openings and said, I would like this job.

[00:08:58] This is the one that I think is the right fit for me. So went through the process and was hired as his speechwriter in February of 1996 and ended up becoming ultimately his campaign press secretary when he, his last re-election bid in 1998 and then serving as his press secretary in Washington.

[00:09:17] Coincidentally, one of the people I met during those many visits to Senator Graham's office to repeat the question, do you have anything open that I could any job I could apply for was my good friend Steve Dibenau who many of you know Steve who is an attorney here in town preceded me as chief of staff at the city of Jacksonville.

[00:09:37] Steve was the one who when I would stop by he would be the one to usually tell me, no we don't have anything available. So we became really good friends out of that and it's an example of the many friendships that I was blessed enough to make as a result of Senator Graham.

[00:09:52] He receives full credit for those.

[00:09:54] By the way, we were looking for some video of you sprinting from that printer. Unfortunately, it didn't make it here in time but we'll move on regardless. Chris a little bit later on.

[00:10:04] I was much, I was much more svelte and cat like in those days than I am now but but it was trust me. I'm pretty sure I broke some speed records going from printer to office.

[00:10:16] Chris, mentioning this time that you went in, I have just asked that can you just very quickly say what it was like your first when you went in there sat down across the desk for me. Do you remember what that first meeting in his office was like?

[00:10:31] It was a dream come true. I mean is really what it was in many ways. This is the person I'd most looked up to and you know the first thing that Senator Graham, I mean one of his many incredible human qualities is the ability to put people at ease

[00:10:46] and relate to them on a very personal level. So the first question he often asked people was where are you from? I told him Jacksonville. He said where did you go to high school? He said, I said I went to Fletcher High School.

[00:10:59] He's like oh you're the senators right? That's your nickname, the senators right? So he had sort of an encyclopedic knowledge and in this case the mascot happened to be the job he held at that particular moment.

[00:11:12] But he also had an, I saw this repeated time and time again. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of the state and of things like high school mascots and really an essential part of his humility was his desire to put people at ease so they felt comfortable talking to him sharing their stories so he could learn from them.

[00:11:30] That's what Senator Graham loved to do the most. Learn from Floridians, understand their stories and so I think my first meeting with him was probably like that of a lot of other people in the state of Florida, him immediately trying to get to know me or the other person on a personal basis.

[00:11:47] Tell us what it was like to work for him. Okay you went in there, you had the interview, you got the job. Now tell us what it was like to work for Bob Graham.

[00:11:54] Well it was an extraordinary experience. My father likes to joke, he's like look Senator Graham may have ruined you because you've had the best possible work experience in your life as one of your first jobs and he was totally right about that in the sense that it was a wonderful collaborative relationship as you indicated my first job for Senator Graham was speechwriter

[00:12:16] and that's a job that I you know even though I took on other titles and responsibilities sort of continued to have. There were several incredible things about the working experience with Senator Graham. One was the deep feeling of patriotism that you had coming to work every day in the United States capital.

[00:12:31] I would take the metro to Union Station and walk kind of across the Senate and you know I'm not sure the most cynical person in the world could avoid feeling awe and respect at kind of being part of that but he had also assembled an incredible team of people, the folks I worked with in the press office were amazing

[00:12:51] professionals and also throughout the entire staff, the legislative staff, the Florida staff so I mean one of his many talents was assembling a very strong team and I'm very proud to count many of those colleagues as friends you know even today but working with him was a phenomenal experience

[00:13:07] because we were you know when you collaborate with someone in writing and that's what my job was to kind of help him craft the written word, help him think about what he was going to say in speeches help him develop op-eds. Senator Graham loved op-eds. He loved to write columns that would appear in newspapers

[00:13:24] but the real joy of working with him is people who have served as speech writers have a variety of different experiences but one is you know sometimes you'll work with somebody where you write it and they just sort of say it verbatim and there's a I think something's lost in that process.

[00:13:39] What I loved working with Senator Graham was there was such a give and take in a back and forth and it was really a collaborative process and he really cared about the written word and cared about investing himself in that product and of course was a next level thinker so for me it was not only an incredible learning experience professionally but also educationally in terms of how much I learned from him

[00:14:02] and from him substantively during that process and really enjoyed it. We continued doing that for most of the rest of his life including you know working on two books together as you said in your intro Mike.

[00:14:13] And I was going to ask you about that too. Whose idea was it to write the books? Was this yours or Senator Graham's?

[00:14:17] Well it was Senator Graham had a lifelong passion for citizenship and frankly to kind of bring this back to here in Northeast Florida in many ways that passion started right here in Northeast Florida in Jacksonville.

[00:14:32] In the kind of early to mid 1970s Senator Graham was chair of the Senate Education Committee he was a member of the Florida Senate.

[00:14:39] They were having these town hall meetings across the state to kind of get constituent and citizen feedback on education issues and one of those town halls was held at Wolfson High School here in Jacksonville.

[00:14:52] And they did the town hall meeting and after the meeting several students came up to Senator Graham and said you know Senator we have a problem that we'd like you to address and he said sure tell me what it is and they said it's bad food in the school cafeteria.

[00:15:06] And he said well you know that's you know am I the first person you've spoken to about this and they said no you're the third.

[00:15:13] And he said well who were the first two. They said well first we went to the mayor of Jacksonville Hans Tansler and he said that that was not sort of within his jurisdiction.

[00:15:23] And then second we went to the sheriff of Duvall County Dale Carson who said that.

[00:15:28] Well I know he said he was sure the food was bad but he was also sure it was not criminal. So he could not weigh in and be part of that.

[00:15:37] And so Senator Graham was like well you know unfortunately also not really in the province of the state legislature but it really got his wheels turning as to you know there's work to be done in making sure that citizens know what their rights and responsibilities are and how to discharge those

[00:15:53] and moving elected officials in their in their direction. So following that he kind of told this story to a group of educators and one of them challenged him to come into the classroom himself and sort of see what it's like.

[00:16:06] And so he did. So the first of his work days is more than 400 actually 408 to be precise work days was at Carroll City High School in Miami Gardens Florida where he taught a semester of civics.

[00:16:19] And in that semester of civics one of the main projects they had was each student was supposed to take on a different project a different problem in kind of the local community and use the skills of citizenship.

[00:16:32] Those experiences both at Wolfson High School and at Carroll City High School really invoked in Senator Graham a lifelong passion for citizenship.

[00:16:40] You know I think he was a governor. He was a U. S. Senator but he always believed that the most important title and role in American democracy was that of citizen.

[00:16:51] So these books which were at his initiative were really part and parcel Mike of his passion for helping Americans understand that they have the skills they need to move government in their direction and to teach them how to discharge those rights and responsibilities of citizenship.

[00:17:10] Chris I remember well back in the early 70s when I was working in the Florida Senate getting not getting to know but watching Bob Graham and it was at a time when the Senate was loaded with big personalities and some very strong leaders.

[00:17:27] And frankly Bob Graham wasn't one of them.

[00:17:32] Nothing to understandable reasons for that he was looked at more as a wealthy or educated academic than a politician and he seemed quiet and reserved to me and he kind of dressed frumpy.

[00:17:48] And then as you have alluded in 1978 I did help me or cancer run for governor and I got to see Governor Graham as a candidate for Senator Graham as a candidate for statewide office.

[00:18:03] You know in addition to hands he had there was smathers of the Bruce Mathers in that race Bob Shevin the attorney Jones in that race and Lieutenant Governor Jim Williams.

[00:18:12] And I'm confident if you look back in time and look to see what the book of the betting odds were on Bob Graham becoming golden.

[00:18:21] It was probably slim but then he had worked he had that work day idea which I think was a part of his life already.

[00:18:30] He hired Bob Squires out of Washington to run his media and Bob was a genius political genius and then he had some money.

[00:18:40] And so the rest is history.

[00:18:43] Now I know you weren't involved in that campaign.

[00:18:45] In fact I think he just said something like you might have been three years old or something like that.

[00:18:50] Seven seven years old.

[00:18:53] But what I've got to believe over the course of 30 years he told you some stories about that campaign and how he won.

[00:19:00] Can you share some.

[00:19:01] Sure.

[00:19:02] Well I mean first of all that was an incredible time as you know Mike in Florida government because you really did have some extraordinary leaders.

[00:19:10] Serving in the legislature you named some of them.

[00:19:14] But you know you think back to that 1978 primary field as well it was really a remarkable set of candidates in that Democratic primary.

[00:19:23] In addition to Senator Graham you had Bob Shevin who was the then incumbent attorney general.

[00:19:28] You had the Lieutenant Governor of Florida Jim Williams as you say you had the mayor of Jacksonville Hans Tansler and you had the Secretary of State of Florida Bruce Mathers who by the way very kindly was at Senator Graham's

[00:19:40] ceremony in Tallahassee on Friday to pay his respects and Jim Williams running mate was Betty Caster who would go on to become the Education Commissioner for Florida and the President of the University of South Florida.

[00:19:53] So a really remarkable field as you say I think what Senator Graham became known for in that campaign were his work days and I think you know for years people used to refer to the work days as sort of a campaign or a political gimmick.

[00:20:07] And what that phrasing misses is I think just how profoundly the work days change Senator Graham's outlook on life and how much they shaped him as a human being and his approach to governing.

[00:20:23] They became so important to him for so many different reasons one as a way of staying in touch with Floridians understanding what they were going through in their jobs.

[00:20:32] What struggles or opportunities they had in their own lives and trying to figure out how he in whether he was governor or U.S. Senator could help with that but also became an incredible source of ideas for him.

[00:20:44] He did a work day in I think like 1995 or 1996 I remember the exact timing in the panhandle where his job was as a bagger at a Winn Dixie grocery store.

[00:20:56] And one of his fellow baggers was a gentleman who was retired and who told Senator Graham look I can only work a certain number of hours each week because of the Social Security earnings limit.

[00:21:08] And it's preventing me I want to work more but it's preventing me from doing that.

[00:21:12] He immediately kind of came back to Washington came out of the exact timing but it was right before or right after I started but I certainly were hearing the story.

[00:21:18] He came back to Washington immediately wanted to act on that legislatively.

[00:21:23] That was I think the most important aspect of the work days is he loved to learn from Floridians and that gave him a chance to do that.

[00:21:32] He did a bunch of work days right here in Jacksonville one that was referred to in the Mark Woods column that ran over the weekend is when John Delaney was mayor of Jacksonville and the Fullerworn Bridge was being rebuilt.

[00:21:44] Senator Graham was you know of course and largely funded by federal dollars.

[00:21:49] Senator Graham did a work day there and Mayor Delaney did the work day with him.

[00:21:54] And so they really sort of changed him as a person but sort of back to the question about the 78 campaign.

[00:22:01] He did work days all over the state Mike and one of the work days at one point was in Daytona and one point when Senator Graham and I were in Daytona he told me this story that after the work day had been done.

[00:22:10] I think they were doing some sort of construction work day that day and after it was done they were finished so they went to the local Morrison's cafeteria for dinner.

[00:22:20] And they were sitting in a booth I think and there were booths around them and you know I guess the evening news either came on or it just come on and he overheard a conversation between two people.

[00:22:30] And one of them said did you see that that person running for governor who's doing work days and the other person at the table said something to the effect of well if that person thinks they're going to get elected governor by doing these work days.

[00:22:40] They need to think again.

[00:22:42] So that was that was at a Morrison's cafeteria somewhere in the greater Belusha County area but they really they really changed who he was changed his perspective changed his outlook and really became I think a source of major governing strength for him going forward because it allowed him to stay in touch in a way that a lot of elected officials unfortunately don't and gave him an incredible source of ideas that he could use.

[00:23:06] And I think he loved every one of those four hundred Nate work days.

[00:23:10] Some people may not remember this but Bob Graham was the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee during 9 11 and he pushed for the release of what was 28 pages of highly classified information that detailed the Saudis involvement in 9 11.

[00:23:26] Other senators and President George W Bush refused to release that claiming that if they released that material it would make it harder to win the war on terror.

[00:23:35] Undy Turd though as typical for Bob Graham he kept up the push when Barack Obama became president and then in 2016 wallah the materials were released.

[00:23:46] Why was this so important to him.

[00:23:48] Well that's right it happened on a Friday night in July of 2016 I remember it vividly when they announced the 28 pages.

[00:23:55] What Senator Graham viewed as you know as you indicated he became chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee in in 2001 so was chair kind of during and after the sort of 9 11 attacks on the country and and you know in that role was responsible for oversight over the intelligence committee

[00:24:13] and felt like in that job he owed it to the American people to make sure there was transparency and there was accountability and there was an understanding of what had happened and the role that a variety of different stakeholders had played in 9 11 including you know some that had Saudi ties in that case.

[00:24:32] So he was determined over the years to make sure that Americans could get as full a story as possible about what had happened on 9 11.

[00:24:40] That time as and this was after I had I had left the staff and I had come back to Florida I was in I was at the University of Florida law school at that point but I think that episode his service as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee helps tell us and show us a lot about Bob Graham when he was determined to be bipartisan.

[00:24:58] You know the there was a joint committee chaired by himself and Porter goss who was the House Intelligence Chairman also from Florida from the Fort Myers area and they had a very close working relationship where good friends had you know similar goals but his goal was to make sure that Americans

[00:25:17] knew exactly what happened to have the information they needed to form their own judgments so that the families of those who were affected by 9 11 and the public at large could see the full story and decide that for themselves but like I said it was also an example of the way that Senator Graham governed which was in a very bipartisan way

[00:25:36] he worked to hold both the George W Bush administration accountable for that and the Barack Obama administration it was really just in the last few months of the Obama administration that that was released he did not care who the occupant of the White House was it was irrelevant what their political party was he was focused on trying to do this for the families of 9 11 victims and and for people around the country.

[00:26:00] And I said that bipartisanship had defined his entire career during the four and a half years I worked for him in Washington.

[00:26:07] I will tell you one of the closest relationships he had was with Florida's other senator Connie Mack they were legitimately friends.

[00:26:15] They were they were good friends they disagreed on a lot of issues of course but they always found ways to work together very effectively for the people of Florida just one quick example during the kind of latter part Senator Mack retired in 2000.

[00:26:30] But during the latter part the last couple of years of his time in office this was a period of time maybe not unlike now where there was a lot of controversy back and forth about a president of one party nominating judges and a and a you know a Congress Senate of another party whether they would approve them or not.

[00:26:46] Because Senator Graham and Senator Mack had such an effective and collaborative working relationship and always involved each other in different things they were working on Florida was far less affected by that problem they were able to get judges approved.

[00:27:00] They were able to get new judgeships created and that's just one of many examples one of the first things that he told me the week I joined his office was you know here in this office we are about getting things done we're about accomplishing results.

[00:27:13] And we're about working across party lines because that's what we owe to our constituents here so it was really a message in a philosophy that I was taught from you know day one of the office there something he was passionately committed to.

[00:27:27] Yeah Chris you know Senator Graham is it's a lot of credit rightly so for doing a lot of important things for Florida and for the United States.

[00:27:36] What do you think he was the most proud of in Hawaii.

[00:27:39] I think number one he was the most proud of his family.

[00:27:42] He had you know obviously many of you have met his just incredible wife Adele Graham.

[00:27:49] He has four daughters you know eleven grandchildren three great grandchildren so I think and of course his you know his brother's family very proud of his family but in terms of his accomplishments I think there were several subject matters that were particularly important to him.

[00:28:04] One was Florida's natural treasures our environment.

[00:28:08] He was so focused as governor and as a U.S. Senator in trying to preserve those national treasures and you know we see the results of his determination all around us at the Florida Everglades.

[00:28:21] You know right here in Northeast Florida in places like Big Talbot State Park you know which became a state park and of course Gwana Preserve which you know very famously is now preserved land because Senator Graham had been a great leader.

[00:28:33] And her patent the then CEO of Gate Petroleum reached an agreement to preserve that land so I think that's one when you go to any state park or state conservation area around the state that's probably there because Senator Graham established that culture of preservation.

[00:28:49] Education was another one deeply committed to public schools and to supporting our state colleges and universities.

[00:28:56] And I think a third one is what we started with in this defined his entire career even after he left elected office the cause of effective citizenship helping Americans learn the skills they need to move government in their direction how to use those skills and how to how to accomplish those goals.

[00:29:14] We want to start the lightning round here in just a second but I have to ask you a question about what was written by A.G. Gankarski when he said it's not Bob Graham's Florida anymore.

[00:29:26] What does that mean?

[00:29:28] Well I would defer to A.G. to define exactly what that means but when I've heard sentiments like that you know I think there and we talked this a little bit what the 1970s legislature looked like I think there was a sense that for many years the state had was generally sort of a kind of moderate sort of political climate that there was a lot more bipartisanship opportunities.

[00:29:52] We were a lot more purple than two.

[00:29:53] That's right that's you know in sort of the moderation but I think also there was a feeling that there was much more working across party lines that there were some consensus around certain issues like environmental preservation like support for our higher education institutions.

[00:30:09] So again I don't want to speak for A.G. he's a great writer and thinker and he can define it himself but when I've heard those sentiments it has been around the sort of the basic theme that you know we used to be able to work together and now it feels like we're having a much tougher time with that.

[00:30:27] Okay here we go basically what we do here with our lightning round Chris is that we'll mention something about Bob Graham and then you quickly tell us what it is what it means why it's important to you okay.

[00:30:37] Okay.

[00:30:38] Well I think most people think about this as the 1978 ticket of Bob Graham and Wayne Mixon which was known as the Graham Cracker ticket and just to be very clear as to what the definition of cracker is here that's a term that applies to folks who have been in Florida for many generations dating back to its frontier years.

[00:30:57] And you also hear that in conjunction with the Bob Graham song are y'all familiar with the Bob Graham song do you know the Bob Graham song.

[00:31:06] I don't.

[00:31:07] Do you think our viewers know the Bob Graham song.

[00:31:08] No please.

[00:31:57] Bob's working for this future every day.

[00:32:01] Bob Graham is a cracker.

[00:32:04] The Graham Cracker Cracker let's keep Graham as our leader all the way.

[00:32:12] Bob Graham for US and all the way.

[00:32:21] Just to be very clear what cracker mean there's a Florida cracker culture it means folks who trace their lineage back generations to Florida's frontier days and you know Senator Graham's family long been in the cattle in the dairy business but when he selected state Senator Wayne Mixon of Mariana in Jackson County to be his running mate that

[00:32:41] became known as the Graham Cracker ticket Iraq war and running for president.

[00:32:46] So he was as you know Mike he was one of the first centers to come out against the Iraq war said that he felt it took the eye off the ball of kind of what was the more serious problem which was terrorist groups like Hezbollah and others that were causing challenges

[00:33:02] and whether it was in Afghanistan or other parts of the Middle East at the time was considered a very rare stance.

[00:33:08] He ran for president in 2004 and really just had I think some you know just sort of some bad luck in terms of timing had a little bit of a health issue in terms of some heart surgery and you know I think it also showed the way that our political system had evolved.

[00:33:25] I wrote a column after his presidential campaign ended called when the best man doesn't win and talked about how the political culture had evolved to the point where you know someone like Bob Graham who had a very folksy very thoughtful approach to campaigning for government

[00:33:41] government for president was you know maybe you know from a little bit of a different time and made it sort of harder to connect in the primary electorate we had then.

[00:33:53] 4000 small notebooks.

[00:33:57] Senator Graham's dad as I said was a dairy farmer and really believe strongly that you know people that if you you know wrote something down it was not only a way to remember it but also gave people confidence that you would remember it and be able to act on it so.

[00:34:12] Senator Graham sort of essentially adopted this process from his dad Capgram who was actually a state senator and like I said sort of a dairy farmer as a way of just sort of remembering his day I mean think of it is kind of like an earlier version of like the palm pilot or the the notes app on your iPhone that's

[00:34:30] really what it was and it was hugely effective I mean he would meet Floridians have a conversation with them write down what he learned right down their address and they would almost always hear from him they'd get a letter or something from

[00:34:43] Senator Graham so you know at one point the national press really didn't understand this and they were sort of trying to paint it as you know something that was kind of out of the ordinary.

[00:34:52] It was an extremely effective governing tool for him when he was when he was governing because it allowed Floridians to see he takes a seriously he's truly interested in what we're saying and then to kind of maintain a dialogue with them over time.

[00:35:07] Save the Everglades.

[00:35:11] Probably the most important priority of his time as governor.

[00:35:16] He you know the floor everglades one of the world which he would call the American you know America's Everglades or even the world's Everglades.

[00:35:23] They're just an incredibly valuable natural treasure that exists in our state like like anything else you see around the world and he had really grown up with the Everglades senator Graham when he was born in November of 1936 he was born in

[00:35:36] Pensuco kind of in Miami Dade County or then called Dade County right on the edge of the Everglades so the Everglades were very much part of him and he part of the Everglades and was very determined to try and protect them over time probably his most important legacy as governor.

[00:35:54] I'd sell a bit over night all three months to relate to Jimmy Buffett.

[00:35:59] Very close friends it you know I think it makes it even sadder that we lost both Jimmy Buffett and Bob Graham you know in the same year but they became very good friends.

[00:36:09] They were the co-founders of the Save the Manatees Club worked together for Manatee preservation but just became very close friends and colleagues over the years.

[00:36:19] Jimmy Buffett would you know play concerts when Senator Graham was running for election but it was much deeper than that.

[00:36:25] They were true collaborators true friends for those who remember the Preskets and Tallahassee Jimmy Buffett was kind of involved in that one year and so they just they they struck up a very very close friendship and you know it as sad as this is one of the areas of comfort is the is the hope and the belief that right now they are back together again having some

[00:36:49] great conversations and maybe writing some lyrics together.

[00:36:52] Senator Graham saw himself as a bit of a songwriter and singer so I hope he and Jimmy are collaborating again right now.

[00:36:59] No question that's what they are.

[00:37:00] Not a jigger of salt huh.

[00:37:01] Yeah exactly.

[00:37:02] Yeah there you go.

[00:37:03] Mr. Talbert.

[00:37:05] What's your sting.

[00:37:06] Well buddy is is you know one of Senator Graham's oldest friends you know from Jacksonville here they go back to the University of Florida undergraduate days and really one of those incredible friends that elected a favorite singer.

[00:37:19] And the officials have where they can both be a friend and they can collaborate with you buddy was the deputy chief of staff when Senator Graham was governor.

[00:37:28] He then became the chief of staff he was the chief of staff in the U. S. Senate for really like the first maybe 11 years of Senator Graham's time in the Senate but just a lifelong very close friend of Senator Graham's who also worked with them in government another Jacksonville connection.

[00:37:46] And hasn't had the privilege to meet buddy he is much like Senator Graham he's sort of one of a kind but they just had an enduring many year friendship and that also involved working together in the Senate and in the governor's office.

[00:38:01] You know I'm going to interrupt I knew buddy I knew buddy real well he and his brother Jack are both great friends and great guys and you're absolutely right about but he is one of a kind last one but they'll bring him.

[00:38:15] And he's just a wonderful gracious human being who you know first of all have you know have you know this is a this is a major loss for her you know she and Senator Graham were married for 65 years but she's just an amazing person.

[00:38:31] I remember back when I was a young staffer and Senator Graham's office and you know particularly during the 98 campaign and she knew that I was working late and would call a lot just to sort of check on me and say thank you and really just an incredibly warm lovely human being who's just the

[00:38:50] pit of me of graciousness you know on Friday the line of the line in state ceremony lasted for more than two hours and you know despite what is a difficult period Mrs. Graham sat there the entire time individually greeted every guest who came by so she could thank them for their kind words.

[00:39:06] She is an amazing person and Bob Graham would not be Bob Graham without a delgram before we let you go here Chris tell us a little bit about the Bob Graham Center for public service.

[00:39:17] Sure. Senator Graham established this in 2008 as part of his work to encourage effective citizenship and to help kind of generate the next group of future citizen leaders and public leaders in Florida.

[00:39:32] So in 2008 the Bob Graham Center for public service opened at the University of Florida. It's in a building called Pew Hall right in the middle of campus and it is an incredible place where students can learn the skills of effective citizenship develop the skills

[00:39:47] and qualities they need to be future public leaders in addition to the academic portion of it. They have a series of programs on fascinating subjects where people come in to the Accura which is kind of the main sort of auditorium area to be able to talk about key subjects

[00:40:04] and in fact the family you know in the aftermath of Senator Graham's passing and Lou Flowers encouraged people to provide support for the Bob Graham Center for public service because they're really doing incredible work there to train the next generation of citizens and public leaders there at the University of Florida.

[00:40:21] Thank you so much Chris for sharing all of this with us.

[00:40:24] Well thank you all so much for your time today and thank you for sharing your memories of Senator Graham as well because like I said at the outset he's not really gone as long as we remember him.

[00:40:35] Chris thank you for everything that you have done in that relationship and how we continue to talk about the service above self. You've been doing that. It was a great role model but you have made him proud and you made Jacksonville proud. Thank you for everything you do it.

[00:40:51] That's very kind of you Mike. Thank you.

[00:40:54] Friends you're not going to want to miss next week's program.

[00:40:57] You're right our guest is going to be another Mike. There'll be four mikes on that show once again. This time it's going to be Michael Cruz. Who is Michael Cruz you ask well.

[00:41:07] Michael Cruz is the reporter who wrote the fascinating and in depth article on Jacksonville's Susie Wiles in Politico magazine. It's called the most feared and least known political operative in America.

[00:41:21] If you haven't read it yet let me recommend strongly that you read it before next week sure if you can and we're going to put up the link to Politico so that you can take a look at it later and see it for yourself and read it for yourself.

[00:41:33] It's a long article but boy is it worth it every word of it. Once again Chris thank you very much for joining us our thanks of course to the Jacksonville Historical Center and inside the Jacksonville History Center I should say in the Historical Society and on behalf of my friends who are sitting at their respective homes we want to thank you for joining us on this episode of Mike's on Mike.

[00:41:55] See you again.

[00:41:56] Mike's on Mike with Mike Tolbert Mike Hightower and Mike Miller can be found on your favorite podcasting platform Facebook and YouTube visit the website at Mike's on Mike dot com join us next time for more conversation with Mike's on Mike.