Is Florida’s Education System Pivoting? Discover How Politics and Policy Shape Our Schools with Lori Hersey

[00:00:00] I think a candidate pool of 21 applicants is a very strong candidate pool.

[00:00:05] And the fact that we were able to identify six of the 21 and not just three as to my finalist or four,

[00:00:12] I think speaks highly of the pool of candidates that we have.

[00:00:19] Mikes on Mic, a conversation about politics, government and Jacksonville.

[00:00:24] With 50 year opinion leaders, Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert,

[00:00:28] an award-winning broadcaster and longtime political observer, Mike Miller.

[00:00:33] Welcome once again to another episode of Mikes on Mic.

[00:00:36] I'm Mike Miller along with Mike Hightower and Mike Tolbert.

[00:00:39] And of course, Mikes on Mic is brought to you by our friends at the Jacksonville Historical Society,

[00:00:44] which is located inside the Jacksonville History Center.

[00:00:47] We thank Alan Bliss and the fine donors who make this program possible.

[00:00:51] Thank you all very, very, very much.

[00:00:54] Now, a lot of news has been coming out of the Duval County Public School System.

[00:00:57] So today we're going to be diving into it as much as we possibly can.

[00:01:01] Of course, there's the do-overs in the search for the new superintendent

[00:01:05] and we have some news for you on that today.

[00:01:07] We also have the issue about the sales tax and the cost of construction

[00:01:11] and the very controversial issue we're finding about those conversations going on

[00:01:16] regarding the closing of some schools and the mergers of a number of others.

[00:01:20] The good news, however, is that Duval County is graduating a record number of students.

[00:01:25] The system has a respectable B grade from the state and 30 of the county schools

[00:01:31] have received the state's distinction of being named Schools of Excellence.

[00:01:35] Now here to discuss all of this and more is school board member Dr. Lori Hershey.

[00:01:40] Dr. Hershey is a former chair, was first elected back in 2016.

[00:01:45] She recently received her Doctor of Education.

[00:01:47] Congratulations, Lori.

[00:01:48] Thank you.

[00:01:49] From the Grand Canyon University in Phoenix, Arizona and welcome, welcome, welcome to Mike Sound Mike.

[00:01:54] I'm excited to be here for her.

[00:01:56] It's good to have you here.

[00:01:57] Lots to talk about and Mr. Tolbert is going to kick it off for us.

[00:02:00] Lori, so good to see you and thank you for your public service.

[00:02:03] It's been remarkable and we appreciate it.

[00:02:05] I remember meeting with you early on, I think at River City Brewery to have lunch

[00:02:09] and you have made us all proud.

[00:02:12] As an aside, I want to tell you that I knew Lori's dad, David Harold pretty well.

[00:02:20] He was a brilliant, brilliant young councilman and one of my favorite photos of the world

[00:02:25] in the world is the helicopter landing on the 50-yard line for the Colt Fever

[00:02:32] and there stands David right next to Hershey along with Mayor Guy Bowling and Sheriff Carson.

[00:02:37] So welcome.

[00:02:38] What an honor.

[00:02:39] Yeah.

[00:02:40] So, this is the second school.

[00:02:41] This is the second to go around with you guys looking for a superintendent

[00:02:45] and now you've got six semifinalists as I understand, not finalists but semifinalists.

[00:02:51] Tell us what went on behind the scenes.

[00:02:55] How did you get to those six out of 20 or 21?

[00:02:59] So last week we received all of the applications, all of the resumes

[00:03:04] and cover letters and recommendations from the candidates

[00:03:09] and so we had from about Tuesday or Wednesday of last week through today

[00:03:13] to come through those applications individually.

[00:03:16] We had no conversation collectively and then today we met at nine o'clock

[00:03:21] and we had a tally sheet here and so I marked down the candidates that

[00:03:29] you know, I kind of had my top five or six and I marked it on the paper

[00:03:35] and then as people, we just went board member by board member

[00:03:39] and everybody gave their candidate number and it was really kind of neat to see

[00:03:45] because what happened is like everything else right?

[00:03:49] You have some people who rise to the top and so there were a few candidates

[00:03:53] who already had six or caught the eye of six or seven board members

[00:03:57] you know, maybe five and so all of the candidates that were selected

[00:04:02] really scored between that four, five, six and seven

[00:04:06] so already had the majority of attention of the board members.

[00:04:11] What's your assessment of these six finalists?

[00:04:13] Is there any of them without revealing their names that pop out at you?

[00:04:18] I think everybody probably has their top candidate.

[00:04:22] So Dr. Lauren Hershey?

[00:04:24] I certainly have mine and but I think this is a good pull

[00:04:31] and I think it's going to be a great exercise for the city to go through

[00:04:35] and see this candidate pull. It's a diverse pull of candidates

[00:04:39] from a broad background of experiences.

[00:04:42] I mean we've got people from Virginia with experience in Virginia to Oregon

[00:04:46] we've got applicants who are from the state of Florida

[00:04:50] and so I think it's a great candidate pull

[00:04:53] and I think it's going to be exciting for the community to go through this process.

[00:04:56] What was most important to you?

[00:04:57] I think it's actually leadership and so for me when I was looking at candidates

[00:05:01] one of the qualifiers for me was did you have experience as a superintendent

[00:05:06] and even though someone can have superintendent experience

[00:05:09] it might not be at the level because we're the 20th largest district in the country.

[00:05:13] Correct.

[00:05:14] There are some, if you're a superintendent there are some issues

[00:05:18] and challenges that you address that are scalable

[00:05:21] and so to me it didn't matter so much on the size of the school district

[00:05:25] but did you have the leadership and educational experience

[00:05:29] and some of the people who we selected to look at

[00:05:32] had experience in the district at a high level

[00:05:38] and maybe they'd served as chief of staff or deputy superintendent

[00:05:42] maybe not superintendent but they had served in larger organizations in school districts

[00:05:47] so I'm excited about this candidate pull.

[00:05:49] Why was it so difficult to attract more applications, more applicants

[00:05:54] because initially up until the deadline we only had a few

[00:05:58] and then all of a sudden there was this rash before midnight

[00:06:01] where it all of a sudden jumped up to 21.

[00:06:04] I don't think that that was a delay.

[00:06:09] I think people were interested in applying but keep in mind

[00:06:12] in the wonderful state of Florida we have the sunshine.

[00:06:14] Yes we do.

[00:06:15] And the problem with the sunshine is that if you are a sitting superintendent

[00:06:20] and you are putting your name out but everybody knows it.

[00:06:23] Exactly.

[00:06:24] And so I can just tell you as a board member

[00:06:27] if we had a superintendent who had put their name in the hat

[00:06:30] I would be thinking well so do you want to be here

[00:06:32] and so I don't know how everybody else thought

[00:06:35] I'm just telling you from my perspective as a school board member

[00:06:38] I don't think it was anybody was reluctant

[00:06:41] I think people were waiting as long as they could

[00:06:43] because it's very public in the state of Florida

[00:06:46] if you are applying for a superintendent job.

[00:06:49] Mark Woods once wrote since this job is in Florida

[00:06:53] and I'm quoting now since this job is in Florida

[00:06:56] you'll get to work closely with Governor Ron DeSantis

[00:06:59] administration the Department of Education

[00:07:01] and maybe even Moms for Liberty.

[00:07:03] And you don't work if you don't work in lockstep

[00:07:07] with all three of these you might want to take a look

[00:07:10] at another job that's what Mark wrote.

[00:07:12] Is the political climate that we have here

[00:07:15] was that detrimental do you think

[00:07:17] in people applying for it or might have actually

[00:07:21] enhanced it for some?

[00:07:23] So let me tell you I have one of the

[00:07:25] I have another job and it is with a

[00:07:29] national educational search firm where we do

[00:07:32] searches across the nation for educational leaders

[00:07:35] and what I have found when I have conversations

[00:07:38] with candidates across the country and talk to references

[00:07:41] that we think were so unique in the state of Florida

[00:07:43] and we're really not.

[00:07:44] So many of the issues and challenges that we have

[00:07:47] even at the political level they are experiencing

[00:07:50] those from as far away as Alaska where we've had

[00:07:53] conversations to Missouri, Ohio, other places

[00:07:57] that I've been able to talk to potential

[00:08:00] superintendent candidates.

[00:08:02] So what I will tell you is we think we're so unique

[00:08:05] but actually there's a lot trending in Florida

[00:08:08] that is actually trending in the field of education

[00:08:11] across the country.

[00:08:12] But one of the things about Florida that I thought

[00:08:16] was so attractive was that we do have strong

[00:08:20] home rule and that we're not dictated from the state

[00:08:24] or from the State Department of Education

[00:08:26] that local school districts have a lot of autonomy

[00:08:30] when it comes to how they run their schools

[00:08:32] and from observers that I've talked to

[00:08:36] they feel that that has been going in reverse

[00:08:39] since the current administration got into office

[00:08:42] and that the feeling is not as independent

[00:08:46] as it has been in the past.

[00:08:48] You've been on the board now since 16.

[00:08:51] Have you seen that kind of a change?

[00:08:53] Do you see that there's been a title?

[00:08:55] I think there's a city council that's seen that

[00:08:56] kind of change too.

[00:08:57] I think so too.

[00:08:58] I think yes.

[00:09:00] Home rule is not what it used to be

[00:09:02] but again what I would argue is that my conversations

[00:09:05] with educational leaders across the state

[00:09:07] is that they too were finding or having

[00:09:10] some of that same experience.

[00:09:11] What you're saying is that across the country

[00:09:14] for a very different, very reasons

[00:09:17] other folks are experiencing those kind of issues.

[00:09:20] Yes.

[00:09:22] That doesn't make it right.

[00:09:24] I'm not saying it does but when you say

[00:09:27] does that make people not want to apply

[00:09:28] to be super-attended in the state of Florida?

[00:09:30] That's an insight from Mr. Tolberg.

[00:09:32] You know I think that it doesn't,

[00:09:34] I mean I don't know if somebody

[00:09:35] didn't apply because of it but I think

[00:09:37] a candidate pool of 21 applicants

[00:09:40] is a very strong candidate pool

[00:09:42] and the fact that we were able to identify

[00:09:44] six of the 21 and not just three

[00:09:47] as semifinalists or four I think speaks highly

[00:09:50] of the pool of candidates that we have.

[00:09:52] So two questions.

[00:09:53] What's next in the superintendent's search

[00:09:55] and why couldn't you just keep the interim

[00:09:57] that you have now?

[00:09:58] It seems like she's doing a pretty good job.

[00:10:00] May 1st, we are going to get from

[00:10:03] the semifinalists their written responses

[00:10:05] to questions as well as video responses.

[00:10:09] From that we will narrow down to our finalist

[00:10:14] and then the finalists will come to Jacksonville.

[00:10:16] I believe it's the 13th and 14th of May

[00:10:20] and there will be a whole timeline

[00:10:23] around an advertise for community members

[00:10:25] to engage in the process

[00:10:27] and we're even going to have an event

[00:10:30] at the Jaguar Stadium.

[00:10:33] Then the public will be invited to that

[00:10:35] and those details will be forthcoming

[00:10:37] after the finalists are selected.

[00:10:39] So you'll go from six to what number?

[00:10:42] I don't know.

[00:10:43] Okay.

[00:10:44] I don't know.

[00:10:45] I mean that could be three, it could be four,

[00:10:47] it could be five.

[00:10:48] Okay.

[00:10:49] It could be six but I do want to say

[00:10:51] if I may Mike that Dr. Krizzner is fabulous.

[00:10:56] She is my favorite superintendent

[00:10:59] that I've worked with.

[00:11:00] Wow.

[00:11:01] And I think she has such a love for what she does

[00:11:04] and she does it with such joy

[00:11:07] that it's really been fun to work with her

[00:11:10] and she is a leader who has made changes

[00:11:13] without causing waves in a positive way.

[00:11:17] So she's been excellent.

[00:11:18] Why she's not saying she is

[00:11:21] in the she's headed towards retirement

[00:11:24] and her husband is retired

[00:11:25] and I do believe he would like

[00:11:27] spend a little bit more time with her

[00:11:28] and this is a demanding job.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:31] Wow.

[00:11:32] If we can change lanes a little bit for a second.

[00:11:36] In 2020, we were all engaged in asking voters

[00:11:39] to approve one quarter of penny,

[00:11:43] have penny sales tax to pay for new schools

[00:11:46] and the renovations for the 60% voted yes.

[00:11:51] It is estimated that that tax is going to raise

[00:11:54] $1.9 billion.

[00:11:57] In the short time since that election

[00:11:59] we're seeing two things.

[00:12:01] One, construction costs have soared to recent

[00:12:04] to $3.9 billion.

[00:12:07] Well it seems like it's late

[00:12:08] all we talk to is billions here.

[00:12:11] And second, public school students

[00:12:13] are leaving for charter schools

[00:12:15] and private schools and record numbers.

[00:12:18] What's the impact on all this

[00:12:19] in the future of schools in Jacksonville?

[00:12:22] As a school board member in your, you know,

[00:12:25] Twilight years got answers for those questions.

[00:12:28] So we saw this trend starting in 2016-2017

[00:12:31] when we had the schools of hope

[00:12:33] that were approved by the state of Florida

[00:12:36] and that was really when we started to see

[00:12:39] growth in charter schools.

[00:12:41] So I well remember the effort for the half penny

[00:12:45] and we all remember that shall now means May

[00:12:48] in Lingson Jacksonville.

[00:12:50] We're going to break that up.

[00:12:51] So that never gets old, right?

[00:12:53] And so you know here's the truth of the matters

[00:12:57] that we have the oldest schools

[00:12:59] in the state of Florida and we had to address facilities

[00:13:02] and the plan that was introduced then

[00:13:06] was for that time and I don't think

[00:13:09] anybody saw 2020 coming.

[00:13:11] Nobody saw House Bill 1 which passed last year

[00:13:14] coming which now allows people who home

[00:13:17] school to have funds for homeschooling

[00:13:21] and those funds for homeschooling by the way

[00:13:23] can be used to buy a kayak,

[00:13:26] pay for golf lessons, art lessons.

[00:13:30] You can also use that for any

[00:13:33] amusement park in the state of Florida

[00:13:36] not to mention for you can buy a TV or computer.

[00:13:40] So that's opened up and we've already had

[00:13:42] a large homeschool population in Duval County.

[00:13:46] So this legislation that just passed

[00:13:48] that expanded dollars to those who homeschool

[00:13:52] if they choose to take it that allows,

[00:13:54] expands vouchers that allows people to

[00:13:57] take their dollars and put them towards

[00:13:59] private schools not all private schools take them.

[00:14:02] Coupled with the expansion of charter schools

[00:14:07] has all kind of rolled into the decline

[00:14:10] in enrollment so it's really hard to say

[00:14:12] it's just this one thing.

[00:14:14] There are multiple factors that have led to

[00:14:16] a decline in enrollment as a whole

[00:14:19] for our traditional schools.

[00:14:22] The good news is, is that under the leadership

[00:14:25] of Dr. Kriessner she has been very innovative

[00:14:28] at looking at ways to reduce building

[00:14:30] and construction costs and in fact

[00:14:33] she was just out and Clay Kelly

[00:14:35] looking at our neighbors who have a,

[00:14:37] there's a 30 year happening sales tax.

[00:14:40] I don't know how they got that, our sister's 15

[00:14:43] they are able to build some schools

[00:14:46] at a lower cost than we are

[00:14:48] and so we are looking at other options as well

[00:14:51] with building costs.

[00:14:53] If not, as I understand it charter schools

[00:14:57] don't have the reporting requirements

[00:14:59] of how they spend their dollars that public schools do

[00:15:02] even though it's public school money

[00:15:04] that's going to the charter schools.

[00:15:06] Is that true?

[00:15:07] So it is true so keep in mind with our dollars

[00:15:09] for the half penny sales tax

[00:15:11] you know we are, we have a oversight committee

[00:15:14] that is tracking to make sure we're spending dollars

[00:15:16] the way we told the public that they would,

[00:15:18] we would spend the dollars.

[00:15:20] We give the money to the charter schools

[00:15:22] not all charter schools have provided us

[00:15:24] with information on how they spend it

[00:15:26] but that information that came back to the districts

[00:15:29] there are charter schools who are using that money

[00:15:32] from the half penny which was

[00:15:34] to improve school facilities to actually pay their leases.

[00:15:37] If I'm homeschooling my children

[00:15:40] and I get money from the taxpayers

[00:15:42] from the school system, the homeschool my children

[00:15:46] do I have to report to the school system

[00:15:49] to the school board how I've spend that money?

[00:15:51] Not to the school board

[00:15:53] I do understand that there's some reporting to the state

[00:15:56] I have talked to parents who said

[00:15:58] we decided not to take that money

[00:15:59] because we didn't want to have to

[00:16:01] explain everything to the state

[00:16:03] and I do know other people who have welcomed that

[00:16:05] and some people who even decided

[00:16:07] to homeschool their children because of the access

[00:16:10] to those dollars.

[00:16:11] How do we rationalize

[00:16:14] that those public tax dollars

[00:16:17] can go to parochial schools?

[00:16:19] Not charter but parochial

[00:16:21] I mean we have a very strong constitution

[00:16:24] in the separation of church and state

[00:16:27] and yet we do have tax dollars

[00:16:29] coming out of our pockets going to religious schools.

[00:16:32] How is that constitutional?

[00:16:36] I think it was followed.

[00:16:38] Is that too loaded?

[00:16:39] It's a hard question because I think

[00:16:41] somebody is going to say it falls under

[00:16:43] school choice or options

[00:16:46] but here's the flip side is that there are

[00:16:49] our traditional schools and listen even our charter schools

[00:16:52] those students take the standard

[00:16:54] the state test which is now fast

[00:16:57] and so but if you're taking dollars

[00:17:00] and you're going to a private school

[00:17:02] you're not taking that state test

[00:17:05] there are other standardized tests

[00:17:07] that you may take at that private school

[00:17:10] but you're not being measured the same way

[00:17:12] that even charter or traditional schools are.

[00:17:14] And thinking about your appearance today

[00:17:17] being with us I couldn't help but be reminded

[00:17:20] of when a couple of consultants

[00:17:22] who were close to Curry

[00:17:24] Tim Baker and Sam Moussa came to see you

[00:17:27] about putting that half penny on the ballot

[00:17:29] get it through the city council

[00:17:31] and my memory is that they wanted

[00:17:34] something like $450,000 to do that

[00:17:37] take us back to that moment

[00:17:39] tell us what that was like

[00:17:40] what you were thinking

[00:17:41] and what the hell they wanted.

[00:17:43] Well first of all I did not want to take that meeting

[00:17:45] and I had thought it was canceled

[00:17:47] and I had gone out to lunch

[00:17:48] and got back and they were there

[00:17:50] so I met with them

[00:17:52] and I just remember sending them that room

[00:17:55] thinking this conversation is going to be a

[00:17:58] he said she said kind of conversation

[00:18:00] I didn't think I was going to come out

[00:18:02] well in that

[00:18:03] and so I will tell you while I was sitting there

[00:18:05] I said can you put that in writing for me

[00:18:07] because I just thought that would be good

[00:18:10] to have it right

[00:18:11] and so I don't remember the dollars

[00:18:14] but yes that was a conversation

[00:18:17] to get it on the ballot

[00:18:20] and to

[00:18:22] you know work with them to make it happen

[00:18:25] but that's not something that as a cheerer

[00:18:27] you can make

[00:18:29] you have to make decisions as a board

[00:18:31] but that was a whole new

[00:18:34] side of Jacksonville

[00:18:36] that I got to experience in that moment

[00:18:38] So between 1 and 10

[00:18:39] how long did you think about it?

[00:18:41] Zero

[00:18:43] I mean it was kind of like how do you

[00:18:45] but you know keep in mind too

[00:18:47] there's that

[00:18:48] well first of all if I had known what the conversation

[00:18:50] was going to be

[00:18:51] I would have had somebody else in the room with me

[00:18:53] right so it's me and two other people

[00:18:55] and those conversations are very difficult

[00:18:58] when you're the only person in the room

[00:19:00] with your view right

[00:19:02] and so I just remember sitting there thinking

[00:19:04] okay I need

[00:19:06] something in writing

[00:19:08] in case I ever need to prove

[00:19:11] that the conversation took place

[00:19:13] I have to ask a question

[00:19:15] because Mike brought it up about your dad

[00:19:17] I'm just thinking

[00:19:19] if those two people had been in the room

[00:19:21] what's your dad's reaction

[00:19:23] because I think I know what David Harold would have said

[00:19:25] I think Tolbert would

[00:19:27] what would your dad have said

[00:19:29] probably something I can't say on air

[00:19:31] that would be what Tolbert would say

[00:19:33] it's a podcast you can say anything

[00:19:36] obviously then the genes passed

[00:19:41] from your dad to you

[00:19:43] but you're

[00:19:44] our charter schools bleeding the best

[00:19:47] of the crop

[00:19:49] and is that impacting

[00:19:51] the performance of public schools

[00:19:53] well that's a good question

[00:19:55] so it depends on where they were

[00:19:57] so in my district we have

[00:19:59] ten traditional schools

[00:20:01] so that I represent

[00:20:03] Mandarin the southern part of the city

[00:20:05] we also have

[00:20:07] like nine or ten

[00:20:09] charter schools

[00:20:11] and so we have almost a one for one ratio

[00:20:13] in our in District 7

[00:20:15] that I represent

[00:20:17] and those charter schools do really

[00:20:19] really well what we have found is that when

[00:20:21] charter schools go into

[00:20:23] other parts of the city

[00:20:25] they tend to mirror

[00:20:27] the student

[00:20:29] progress of the traditional school

[00:20:31] so rarely do you see

[00:20:33] a charter school

[00:20:35] parachute into a community

[00:20:37] and then do something

[00:20:39] way better than the

[00:20:41] traditional school it's usually parallel

[00:20:43] so why would a parent

[00:20:45] choose a charter school over a public school

[00:20:47] well I think for a couple reasons

[00:20:49] one is I can only speak

[00:20:51] for people I've talked to in District 7

[00:20:53] many of them are K-8

[00:20:55] and so just that

[00:20:57] the footprint is smaller

[00:20:59] you walk in the building

[00:21:01] I walked in a charter school in my district

[00:21:03] and I thought if I was 30 again why would I send

[00:21:05] my child here

[00:21:07] and a couple reasons at one stop

[00:21:09] all three of them can go

[00:21:11] from kindergarten through eighth grade

[00:21:13] so convenience

[00:21:15] and I think you know we have

[00:21:17] at least in Mandarin

[00:21:19] and in many of our other middle schools

[00:21:21] we have some very large middle schools

[00:21:23] the middle school is very scary for many parents

[00:21:25] and so when you look at putting

[00:21:27] your child in a middle

[00:21:29] school of two or three hundred students

[00:21:31] versus 1200

[00:21:33] or 1300

[00:21:35] or 1000 or 900

[00:21:37] I think that has a big

[00:21:39] part of it

[00:21:41] it's just a different feel

[00:21:43] I don't think people

[00:21:45] time and time again I've talked to

[00:21:47] principals and parents who

[00:21:49] have moved their children

[00:21:51] from a traditional school

[00:21:53] in District 7 to a charter school

[00:21:55] and they've never complained about

[00:21:57] the experience in the traditional school

[00:21:59] it's usually for the reasons that I mentioned

[00:22:01] good

[00:22:03] picking up on that have you seen

[00:22:05] any kind of a trend where

[00:22:07] a student

[00:22:09] or a parent moved their

[00:22:11] children from traditional to charter

[00:22:13] it wasn't working and then they would

[00:22:15] come back are you tracking

[00:22:17] any of those numbers? Yes

[00:22:19] and it happens all the time and I talked

[00:22:21] to principals in District 7 all the time

[00:22:23] who people leave and then they come back

[00:22:25] typically they come back because

[00:22:27] there are services or

[00:22:29] opportunities that they feel like

[00:22:31] they get in their traditional school

[00:22:33] that they did not get in the charter school

[00:22:35] What criteria does the school system

[00:22:37] use to decide which schools

[00:22:39] are going to be merged

[00:22:41] versus which ones would be

[00:22:43] closed?

[00:22:45] I'm so glad you asked that question because

[00:22:47] Dr. Kriessner asked a consultant

[00:22:49] for a proposal

[00:22:51] and

[00:22:53] the proposal

[00:22:55] was presented

[00:22:57] no recommendation by the superintendent

[00:22:59] but everybody just took the proposal and ran with it

[00:23:01] as it was gospel truth and we've had

[00:23:03] to say no it was a proposal by

[00:23:05] so it was a starting point for conversation

[00:23:07] so keep in mind

[00:23:09] here's the truth of the matter

[00:23:11] we have some neighborhood schools

[00:23:13] that have 300 students

[00:23:15] we have over 40 schools

[00:23:17] with under 400 students

[00:23:19] and what happens for larger

[00:23:21] schools like in my district

[00:23:23] often then they end up

[00:23:25] helping pay the cost

[00:23:27] to keep those smaller schools

[00:23:29] open

[00:23:31] because even though you might

[00:23:33] have a reduced faculty at a school

[00:23:35] you still have to keep their conditioner running

[00:23:37] and you still have to keep the lights on

[00:23:39] and all that kind of stuff

[00:23:41] so just

[00:23:43] looking at it from that perspective

[00:23:45] that's kind of how the conversation started

[00:23:47] so this is just a proposal

[00:23:49] and I don't know

[00:23:51] what the

[00:23:53] consultant used for that

[00:23:55] but we have just started to have this conversation

[00:23:57] as a board where

[00:23:59] we've seen the proposal

[00:24:01] we hear everybody screaming

[00:24:03] I won't close my school but we have to make

[00:24:05] a decision

[00:24:07] that is going to

[00:24:09] put the district not only in a sound

[00:24:11] place

[00:24:13] financially and fiscally but

[00:24:15] in a place where we can provide

[00:24:17] students with the supports and services that they need

[00:24:19] and the

[00:24:21] optimal size of a school

[00:24:23] for that is right around

[00:24:25] 700 or 800 students

[00:24:27] seems to be

[00:24:29] the right place to be

[00:24:31] and that's what we do

[00:24:33] but it's also

[00:24:35] that's where we're doing our

[00:24:37] relationships

[00:24:39] so what's gonna happen is

[00:24:41] is that between

[00:24:43] sometime this is

[00:24:45] we've only got a week or so left

[00:24:47] in April

[00:24:49] there should be a website

[00:24:51] up where people can go

[00:24:53] in and look at because

[00:24:55] it's not just school consolidations

[00:24:57] it's changing boundaries

[00:24:59] We're going to be holding community meetings in May and June, and then over the summer

[00:25:05] we're going to have some focus groups, and there's no former documentation that's going

[00:25:09] to come to the board before October.

[00:25:11] So we have just started the conversation.

[00:25:13] This is not the end of it, and I think that it's going to look a little different when

[00:25:18] we get to the final proposal.

[00:25:20] But ultimately, there will have to be a time where schools are going to have to close

[00:25:25] or merge.

[00:25:27] And here's what I would say to that, is we have failed to do that over time, and now it's

[00:25:35] painful if we had done that.

[00:25:37] So when I look at it, I look at like in our original proposal, we probably should have

[00:25:42] had more school consolidations in 2019, but we did not.

[00:25:46] But the key to this, what I hear is community outreach, community conversations.

[00:25:51] Yeah, but NIMBY is always going to be there.

[00:25:53] Yeah, but still.

[00:25:55] I mean, you know, it's, I don't know how you come back a little bit.

[00:25:58] Not in my backyard.

[00:25:59] But I think from a communications perspective, Mike Tolbert can tell you that it's about

[00:26:03] the outreach.

[00:26:04] You've got to do, you're going to have to kind of double your efforts out there

[00:26:07] to get back out there, to get that, what it is.

[00:26:12] Let's go to good news.

[00:26:13] All right, let's go to good news.

[00:26:14] Wish you well on this.

[00:26:15] Thank you.

[00:26:16] Wish you well.

[00:26:17] Schools and students are graduating at a record rate.

[00:26:20] That's great news.

[00:26:21] Schools at earning B grades from the state are in the latest assessment.

[00:26:25] The percentage of A schools has increased as we understand.

[00:26:29] 30 schools have been named schools of excellence and a new schools are under construction with

[00:26:35] some already opened.

[00:26:36] You can brag about that a little bit if you'd like.

[00:26:38] Oh, absolutely.

[00:26:39] Here's the one thing I think we do not have any schools in, well, we don't have

[00:26:44] any schools in turnaround status right now.

[00:26:46] We've moved that out.

[00:26:47] That was one accomplishment of Dr. Green.

[00:26:50] And so we had turnaround status when Dr. Vidi left and when Dr. Willis was here.

[00:26:57] And so that was a great accomplishment, I believe, by Dr. Green was moving schools out of turnaround

[00:27:03] status.

[00:27:04] So that's exciting.

[00:27:05] Yes, it's exciting that when we think back to 2011, I think our graduation rate was

[00:27:10] like 75%.

[00:27:12] And at one point pre-COVID, we got up to over 90%.

[00:27:17] And right now I think we're covering around 89.5%.

[00:27:21] So it's exciting to see.

[00:27:23] Okay, Mr. Tobin, it looks like you got the final question here, sir.

[00:27:27] My last question.

[00:27:28] The first and last.

[00:27:29] Laurie, in the years you've been on the school board, the service area I know has

[00:27:34] changed dramatically.

[00:27:37] Talk about when you first went on and compare it to what it's like serving today.

[00:27:42] What are the conflicts?

[00:27:43] I mean there's so many issues going on.

[00:27:45] Has it been constant or has it changed as you've seen it?

[00:27:48] I think the community expresses their frustrations a lot louder than they did in 2016.

[00:27:56] Is that what you're talking about?

[00:27:57] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:58] It has become more focused, at least public comment, more focused on issues that tilt

[00:28:10] politically one way or the other versus a conversation around student achievement.

[00:28:17] I mean we've had, you know, there are a lot of conversations about everything from books

[00:28:23] to gender fluidity and identity.

[00:28:30] I mean it's just been a lot of social issues, a lot of political issues.

[00:28:34] It's gotten more hostile, I would say.

[00:28:37] I think, and some of you are political experts, it's interesting to me in 2016 when I read there

[00:28:44] were seven people in my race.

[00:28:46] My seat is open, there are two people in my race.

[00:28:49] If you look at their four seats that are up for reelection this year, I don't know,

[00:28:57] there might be one race that has three people in it but most of the school board races

[00:29:01] which used to draw five and six people now only have two and three.

[00:29:05] I just think that that speaks to a shift in perspective.

[00:29:09] I talked to somebody who read in 2016 and asked them if they were going to run again

[00:29:12] and they're like, no, I don't want to do that.

[00:29:15] That doesn't look fun anymore.

[00:29:16] Well, and also the legislature is talking about, instead of being about partisan,

[00:29:20] nonpartisan, it's making school board races partisan.

[00:29:25] That just compounds the issue.

[00:29:27] So now it's my understanding at some point the school board races were partisan

[00:29:32] and then they shifted on partisan.

[00:29:34] So this would be a shift back.

[00:29:36] So we've been there before, it's been my understanding.

[00:29:40] But I know that this is a different political climate.

[00:29:43] Very much.

[00:29:44] So that it would probably make a difference.

[00:29:46] So what is your thought about partisanship making it nonpartisan or nonpartisan?

[00:29:53] I think that you can be on the board and have a conservative view or a liberal view

[00:29:59] like so you can have that as an individual, but you are making a collective decision for everybody.

[00:30:06] And so to me to be an effective board member, there are times that you really have to

[00:30:13] well, not all the time.

[00:30:14] You have to wait what's best for all students and not just that have that narrow thought.

[00:30:21] Does that I mean, I think in order to be effective, I think you can have those things,

[00:30:26] but you are making decisions for all students.

[00:30:28] And let me tell you, all students are represented throughout the district and there are some

[00:30:34] districts might say they're they're red or blue than other districts, but you have students

[00:30:39] on both sides of the aisle and you've got to make decisions for the betterment of all.

[00:30:42] What's next for you?

[00:30:44] I'm trying to figure that out.

[00:30:46] You want to stay in education in some way?

[00:30:48] I mean, you just got your doctorate.

[00:30:49] What are you going to do with that?

[00:30:50] That's right.

[00:30:51] I would love to continue to be a part of the conversation with education at local state,

[00:30:59] national level.

[00:31:00] I'm just looking for opportunities that are out there.

[00:31:04] There are some that I'm excited about and it's like I told my husband right now,

[00:31:08] I'm saying yes to everything until you're out the right thing.

[00:31:11] Right.

[00:31:12] Well, we've got to keep you involved and thank you for your service.

[00:31:15] Mike said that earlier, but thank you.

[00:31:17] The six, your eight years you've shown leadership.

[00:31:21] Passion, compassion.

[00:31:24] But you stood tall and expertise.

[00:31:27] Yeah.

[00:31:27] And you've got to be a breeze, but I go back to as we talked about that incident

[00:31:31] when he asked you, did you think he knew said zero?

[00:31:34] I think that talks about your moral compass and your integrity.

[00:31:38] And my perception is we got to keep people like you close in our education.

[00:31:43] Very insightful.

[00:31:44] Thank you very.

[00:31:45] Insightful.

[00:31:47] Thank you for being here.

[00:31:48] It's been a pleasure to be here.

[00:31:49] It's been fun.

[00:31:50] It's been fun.

[00:31:51] Oh, that's going to do it for another episode of Mike's on Mike.

[00:31:54] By the way, this is episode number 41.

[00:31:57] Believe it or not, we're moving towards 50, but we've been doing this now

[00:32:01] for 41 weeks guys.

[00:32:03] This is kind of just amazing to me, but it is spooky.

[00:32:07] It is spooky.

[00:32:08] Next week, we got another great show for you in hand.

[00:32:11] Chris Hand in hand.

[00:32:12] Chris Hand is going to be joining us next week.

[00:32:15] We are all mourning the death.

[00:32:16] Of course, if former senator and you and governor Bob, Bob Graham and nobody

[00:32:21] knew him as well as Chris Hand in writing their joint book together.

[00:32:25] So we've invited two books.

[00:32:27] That's right.

[00:32:28] It's been two books.

[00:32:28] I'm sorry.

[00:32:29] Excuse me, Chris, but Chris will be with us here in studio next week

[00:32:32] and we'll talk to him about his life with Bob Graham and these two gentlemen

[00:32:37] who also have quite a history with the former governor and senator.

[00:32:40] So it'll be a lot of fun and we hope that you'll join us for that.

[00:32:43] Thank you for joining us once again.

[00:32:44] Thank you to the Jacksonville Historical Society.

[00:32:46] Catch us if you will on your favorite podcast platform or on Facebook,

[00:32:50] on YouTube or on our website at Mike's on Mike.com.

[00:32:54] Have a good week, everybody, and thanks for joining us.

[00:32:56] Thank you all.

[00:32:57] Mike's on Mike with Mike Tolbert, Mike Hightower and Mike Miller can be

[00:33:01] found on your favorite podcasting platform, Facebook and YouTube.

[00:33:05] Visit the website at Mike's on Mike.com.

[00:33:08] Join us next time for more conversation with Mike's on Mike.