MOM-Deegan-062326-Descript

[00:00:01] Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike Mikes on Mic, a conversation about politics, government, and Jacksonville, with 50-year opinion leaders Mike Hightower, Mike Tolbert, and award-winning broadcaster and longtime political observer, Mike Miller. Welcome to another episode of Mike's on Mic. I'm Mike Miller, along with Mike Hightower and Mike Tolbert, who's back at the farm this morning, and we're delighted to have you with us, and thank you so very much.

[00:00:27] Once again, we're broadcasting from City Hall, the mayor's office, as a matter of fact. Mayor Deegan beginning her fourth and final year of the first run. Now, as I already launched her re-election bid for 2027, we thought it would be a good time to have her back for the fourth Mike's on Mic, believe it or not. You get the green jacket. There you go. So take a look back at the commitment she made when she got into office, what her accomplishments have been, and what her vision is and her priorities are going to be if she's elected once again.

[00:00:56] And we're also going to take a look behind the curtains, if you will, of the political separation between the mayor and the city council. So with all that, as usual, Mr. Tolbert, we're going to kick it off for us. Go ahead. When you were sworn in, you promised a healthier, safer, more resilient, and more resilient. You also said renderings were going to turn into reality. Three years later, what is the accomplishment you're proudest of, and what is the biggest challenge you haven't solved?

[00:01:26] I would say that we've accomplished so much that I'm proud of. So I would say, honestly, it's the momentum that we see in our city. That's probably what I'm most proud of. We came in here really wanting to put our foot on the gas. As somebody who's been here for five generations and has watched the do-si-do back and forth between we're making progress, we're not making progress. It was really the goal coming in to put our foot on the gas and to make sure that we could accomplish a lot in as short a time as possible.

[00:01:54] And turning the wheel of city government is not always that easy. But we put Melissa Ross in charge of an office we call CHOP. And we have made sure that we continue to move fast. And so whether it's these wonderful riverfront parks or whether it's what we've done in terms of affordable housing, the first administration to ever put local dollars into trying to solve the affordable housing crisis, whether it's what we've done in terms of health care, all the things that we said we were going to do, trying to keep those broken promises.

[00:02:24] We've made a lot of progress in all those areas. And you can feel it. And people say it all the time to me, that we can feel Jacksonville's momentum. It's clearly a city on the rise. And I think that is what I am most proud of. That and the fact that I do think, regardless of all the political nonsense that you can sometimes hear, I do believe we are a city that is starting to believe in ourselves and having more unity than we did before. And I think that was another thing that was incredibly important to me.

[00:02:53] In the last three years, downtown parks have been completed, which, again, coming back, we've been up to back and forth. New housing has been built. Buildings are going up. We see cranes again. For some of us, it's been a long time. We're not talking about birds this time. We're talking about cranes. Yes. The downtown revival gets a lot of attention. But some people, and probably your critics, root, journey, list, roads, drainage, sidewalk, safety, neighborhoods, upkeep, that's their top concern.

[00:03:23] What's being done to improve neighborhoods? And how do you overcome this notion that because downtown's getting all the attention, but neighborhoods still are being neglected? I think that's a contradiction. I think it's your naysayers who, I think, even if you cured something, they'd still say you're not doing it. That's okay. But look, I think what's, and people are starting to see it with the excitement over the parks. People are coming downtown in record numbers.

[00:03:51] We've got tens of thousands of people coming downtown to visit our parks. But the truth is the investment in downtown is truly an investment in all the neighborhoods in the city because it brings us our greatest return on investment, which we can then invest everywhere else. But I want to say we haven't neglected the other neighborhoods while we've been building downtown. Very first thing we did when we walked in the door is we increased the mowing budget tremendously, which we still hear about all the time. We're paving many more roads than we were when we came into office. We're filling a lot more potholes.

[00:04:20] We're doing a lot of sidewalks. So the infrastructure budget has really increased and will increase again this year. We've invested, we were investing $15 million in our most underserved neighborhoods. We wanted to start making good on those broken promises. That's increased to $100 million. So that's a lot of sidewalks. That's a lot of infrastructure. That's a lot of investment in neighborhoods that have been left behind. So I would argue that while downtown is the best return on investment that we can make to give more money to our neighborhoods, we're still investing a lot in infrastructure.

[00:04:50] And I know you probably heard about the Cristobal neighborhood this last week. It is going into septic tank removal. Such a big deal, right, to get that 70%. And then that's one of the worst neighborhoods in terms of leakage of those septic tanks into the river, too, and causing health problems and all that. And we'll invest more in that again in this year's budget. By the way, can I just slip in real quickly that thanks to John Rutherford for helping us get the federal money. You bet. You bet. Thank you, Congressman. We appreciate that.

[00:05:20] He came in, actually. We were able to get him in town. That's why we delayed the announcement of all that because we wanted to have him come in and to make sure we thanked our federal partners. They did a great job. And also Al Lawson before him did a great job. So it's really important that we have those federal partners. And we've got to keep that moving. I know he's going to continue to help us get more money for that. I think that's the case. Before I ask a question about public safety, I want to go back to Mike Tolbert's first question. Sure. Because I didn't hear you answer what is the biggest challenge that you haven't solved.

[00:05:49] Oh, I think the ongoing challenge certainly is affordability. Everybody is extraordinarily concerned about affordability. And we're continuing to work on that. I think affordable housing is top of everybody's list right now. And so that's why we're continuing to try to push forward with that. And that's why we continue to try to create new partnerships, new investment in trying to create more affordable housing.

[00:06:11] We've got about 7,000 units that have come on board since we came into office, which is, like I said, the first time that we've invested local dollars into that. But we need many more. I think we're like 40,000 or 50,000 behind in what we need to make sure that people can have the housing. Now, this property tax amendment may throw a wrench into all that. That may cause us to not be able to make those investments. But the hope is that we continue to make those investments in affordable housing. But I'd say affordability is still the biggest hill to climb.

[00:06:41] You campaigned on making Jacksonville safer while investing in prevention and intervention programs. I've got three questions for you on that regard. Number one, is Jacksonville safer now than it was three years ago when you were sworn in? Sure, it is. All you have to do is look at the numbers for that. And I think Jacksonville is clearly safer. There's less violent crime. I think that's due to JSO doing a great job. And we've also seen the national trends go that way, that crime is down nationally, which is great.

[00:07:06] But at the end of the day, we also have programs like Journey Forward, which have come in with intervention and prevention programs trying to look at the root causes of crime. We've invested a lot in literacy programs, which have really moved the numbers in some of our neighborhoods or some of our schools that have shown really bad performance. So we're very proud of what we've done on the literacy front. That's been partially due to a big partnership with former Mayor Payton, who's helped us put a book in the hands of every four-year-old in the city of Jacksonville every month.

[00:07:34] But there's more to that in terms of what we're doing with Journey Forward. And there are other programs, programs that are focused on returning citizens to make sure that we can get them trained up and into the workforce and things like that. The Hope Center that we just kicked off a few weeks ago that helps to aggregate services for Eastside or out East. So there are so many things that we are focused on in terms of making sure that we address those root causes of crime so we can continue to make progress on that front.

[00:08:03] But I think we've been very successful. And we'll actually have some data on that. We really got our first big funding for that in the last budget season. So we should have data on exactly how those things are performing very shortly. I just wanted to underscore what she said when she was talking about John Payton. The two mics here, all three mics, I had to work with Ed Austin, John Payton, John Belaney. What I heard when you were talking about these things, John Payton, what you're doing it for, it's called partnership. Yes. And that has been the key. Would you not agree?

[00:08:33] Oh, yes. Partnership. Absolutely. I have been so grateful. As I think you know, I have breakfast with former Mayors Payton and Delaney and Nat Glover once a quarter. And largely, they let me vent. And then they give me all their best advice. But one of the things that Mayor Payton said to me early on was, how can I be most helpful? And I said, well, I know your passion is in literacy. And I would really love to have that book club come back and have that partnership. And he said, all in and has been.

[00:08:58] But beyond that, he has been just an incredible force for good in helping us to bridge some gaps in terms of relationships with counsel and things like that. So he's been enormously helpful. You've answered actually my other two questions and your answer in the first one. So I'm going to veer away and ask the other. Okay. In those things that you feel have been successful, where's our media on this? Now, I know the Times Union, of course, is a mere shadow of its former self.

[00:09:26] And it's unfortunate, but you've got about four reporters working there now, and that's all. But is there enough attention? In other words, how do you get the word out, if not through the media, that, hey, folks, we put these programs in and they're working and here's how they're working? How does one do that public relations, if you will? I have stayed in the community since I, of course. You guys are a big piece of that, right? I really think that's why it is so important for me to stay in the community. Do a series of town hall meetings. And then after a couple of months, I schedule the next series of town hall meetings.

[00:09:56] I don't think we can expect, with all the noise out there, for our community to be connected to what we're doing or to even know what we're doing unless we're out there not only hearing from them but showing them, and here's the data that backs up why we're doing what we're doing. And I can tell you, people are incredibly grateful for that. They want to be involved, but so many times they feel like nobody is listening to them. They get frustrated when they can come to a meeting sometimes for a council meeting and they have a very limited time to speak and they feel like they're not always heard.

[00:10:27] And when they come to those town hall meetings, they can talk for as long as they want and they can try to develop that understanding of what we're doing too. And I think those are very helpful. So I work with the media all the time. I have a good relationship mostly with the media. I come from that space, obviously. And so I like to have gaggles and have people in here whenever we can to try to get information out and have them ask questions so people can understand. But you're right. It's a tough environment right now. There are not many reporters left.

[00:10:54] And frankly, they're so overburdened with everything that they have to do. It's not like it was when I was in the news business where basically, obviously, I anchored the news, but I had my segments of things that I was responsible for. But I didn't have to do 12 things a day. And that's hard. So I sympathize with what they go through. But at the same time, it's a frustrating environment, I'm sure, for them too.

[00:11:16] And even from a personal level, in the days of radio talk, which I did for seven years here, it was another forum for people to be able to come on and talk. And they listened. And I remember, particularly Delaney, and before that, that they would tune in just to say, what's Miller attracting to the show in order for me to understand what people are thinking and where their heads are at. And we just don't have that. We have it for sports. Yeah. We do a great job, I think, at sports talk.

[00:11:44] But what mine was considered issue-oriented talk is no longer the case. Yeah. It is so partisan that you can't get in there. Every month, I go on First Coast Connect, on WJCT, and on WOKV to have long-form conversations on those political points. And I think that's helpful. You're reaching a very different audience with both of those services. But you're right. It's tough to get it all out there. But we're doing the best we can. Yeah.

[00:12:11] To change the subject, we've got a new council president. Yes, I do. He's already—you guys don't necessarily seem to agree on policy and procedures. He's your lobby at that time. What gives you confidence that the two of you are going to be able to work together in a critical year of your administration? Well, I think Nick and I have something very important in common. I think that we both are very focused on economic development and on jobs.

[00:12:38] And we're the number one job market on the East Coast right now. And so I think both of us want to make sure that we stay that way. We're the number three city to create a small business. I think we both want to make sure that continues to be easier for people. I think where we may differ is in terms of what we consider to be core services. And that's okay. I've often said, Mike, that I actually enjoy working with people who have different points of view from me because that's how you get to your best answers, right? And so Nick and I have had great conversations.

[00:13:06] What I find is in every time that we've had a conversation, if I can make a reasoned argument, he's going to listen to that and vice versa, hopefully. So I have never had an issue working with people who have a different perspective from me. It is simply when I find that it is only a political exercise that I can get frustrated. And I don't get that sense from Nick. I think he's frankly as frustrated as I am with some of the drama that we've seen on the city council.

[00:13:33] And I think that both of us are looking forward to a calmer existence where we can focus on the things that we can commonly together move forward for the city. And I'm sure we won't agree on everything, and that's fine. But I think it's going to be a productive session with him. I'm picking up on your word drama, if I can. So I'd leave things to length a little bit.

[00:13:54] Throughout the Carrico tenure, it's, I think, fair to say there's been confrontation, controversy, negative headlines, even a state attorney's investigation. You engage in the early days of the attacks on JEA and its wonderful personal friend of mine, CEO Vicki Cabe. How did you decide when to speak out on political turbulence?

[00:14:18] And what do you do to keep your administration focused on governing when the three mics have talked about it numerous times of the drama, the pettiness? How do you stay focused and how do you keep your how do you keep your administration focused on trying to see above it and take the high road and get the job done? You got to keep the main thing. That's really what it comes down to.

[00:14:40] I have so much to do, and as I said from the moment that I stepped in here, you feel like you're on a clock, and you're just in a race to get as much done as you can possibly get done. I don't have time for the nonsense. And so I only engage when I feel like it's absolutely necessary. And when it came to JEA, it was one of those situations where I had made a promise when I was running for office that I would do my very best to protect JEA.

[00:15:03] It was very frustrating for a lot of us to see what happened before, and I saw some of the same forces getting involved. And I said, I'm not going to be silent when I think JEA may be under threat again. And then the other piece, you already mentioned it. I did not want to see a longtime public servant who I know came into this job simply to do a service for the citizens of this city. I did not want to see a smear campaign against her. And I wasn't going to just sit by and let that happen.

[00:15:33] And so I think there are times, Mike, when you have to engage, but 99% of the time, I don't think it's worth it to engage. I think a lot of it for people is inside baseball, and it's hard to have an argument with somebody who's not going to argue back with you. And so if the sheer purpose of the whatever the drama of the day is to get a rise or is to keep the conversation going and get a political talking point out of it, I'm most of the time not going to participate in that.

[00:16:02] And I think most people just want us to get work done for them. I don't think they want to see us fight. No. And I think there's a desperate need to have adults in the room once again. Little civility never hurts. No. Yeah. We grew up with that. All of us talked about that. Our parents talked about that a lot. Yes. I agree. So I'm looking forward to a nice civil year ahead, I'm hoping. I know that you and Nick Holland, of course, have had numerous conversations. I'm sure you've both taken a look at what the next year is going to look like.

[00:16:32] Under his tenure. Are there areas where you have a really big disagreement that you feel is going to be the most challenging to overcome and to reach consensus? I don't. I really don't at this point. I think, like I said, I think the biggest thing is I think we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a core service.

[00:16:51] And I think that when you look around the city and where we were several years ago with downtown deteriorating and infrastructure falling apart and you're seeing pools that aren't open and you're seeing all the things that we've come in and we've tried to fix, you wouldn't necessarily look at that and say, oh, pools or parks are. But they are. But they are. That is all, to me, infrastructure and it's all part of core service for people.

[00:17:16] When we come in with a situation where we're able to create a telehealth program that keeps people out of the ER that saves millions of dollars and ultimately brings our costs down, that's a great return on investment when you have healthier people who are then able to be in the workforce. To me, that's a great return on investment and a core service. So I think we have some folks on the council that believe that police, fire and trash are really the three things that we should focus on.

[00:17:43] And while those are extraordinarily important, they're not the only core services. So I think that Nick is probably more in that camp. But I do think he also understands the need to keep the foot on the gas in terms of our economic development prowess right now. We're just doing so well. Neither one of us wants to take a step back there. So I think we'll come to a place. And there's never been a moment since I've been in this office where we've all agreed on everything. But we've gotten 99 percent of what we wanted through that council because we all know what the priorities should be.

[00:18:11] The 1 percent tends to be the stuff that people want to make political talking points for. We'll continue to battle around the edges, but it'll work out. Speaking of political talking points. Nice transition, Mike. Nice transition. My friend, Councilman Rory Diamond, has been making posts on social media. Now, is Rory Diamond your friend? Is he really your friend? No. I just wanted that answer. That's all.

[00:18:42] A recent Diamond post said, quote, cut it from the city budget. We don't need downtown parks. No Jack's family wants them. God. Sure. That's why we have tens of thousands of people here every month to visit the downtown parks. I don't know that we've done anything that's been more popular than those downtown parks. I have people. Rory may never just cross the ditch. That may be the problem for Rory. But I will tell you, there are a lot of people from the beaches. And he's obviously, as I've said many times, Rory is my council person.

[00:19:11] And I can't tell you how many people from the beaches who have said to me, hey, we are loving those downtown parks. I'm like, hey, if we're getting people crossing the ditch to come to downtown, that's a huge win right there. But tens of thousands of people every month. He's, I'm just going to say this. He is not a serious person. He just isn't. Everything he says is for political, some sort of political point. I don't even believe he believes the things that he says sometimes. He knows these parks are popular.

[00:19:40] And I think that it's part of quality of life. You can't just fund public safety and trash and call it quality of life. That's why we've been the city. We have been struggling so long to get over the top because we haven't focused on those quality of life issues like the parks. And it's in it. Why would we not take advantage of that beautiful river right there? That's a big economic development booster for us. Surely he understands that.

[00:20:09] But so I don't take any of that personally, nor do I take it seriously. I think that's just that particular councilman being who he is. So I don't really know what else to say about that, Mike. And I think you probably know that already. But it's I don't even usually bother to respond to any of that because it's not serious. Yeah. Talking about something that is serious. There's an ill will, ill wind blowing in November when the Florians will have to vote on a referendum to raise homestead exemption and reduce property taxes.

[00:20:38] The council auditor here says it will cost Jacksonville at least $300 million in revenue. If that measure passes, how do we make up $300 million reduction in revenue? Do you have a plan B? The short answer is we don't make up the $300 million hole. Let me explain why. OK. Because we have a 2.2 or something like that billion dollar budget. I can't remember exactly. So we're doing a pie chart.

[00:21:07] So about 1.2 billion of that goes to police, fire, the things we have to cover and then debt service. You end up with about seven or eight hundred million dollars after that. The real discretionary part of that is you're literally cutting more than a third of your budget.

[00:21:27] So basically what you'll have to do is you'll have to look at all of your city services that you fund, your parks, your libraries, all of the things that people say they love. We can go back and revisit that mowing budget, revisit. We've finally started spending money on blight. We'd have to revisit that. All the things that are enhancing our quality of life, all the infrastructure we put into the pools, all the things that we do. And we'd have to take a third of that money out.

[00:21:54] And so I think our work over the next several months, and I know mayors, Democrat, Republican all over the state are beating the same drum, saying, look, there are going to be major cuts that are going to have to be made if we don't have these hundreds of millions of dollars in our budgets. It was a completely short-sighted move by Tallahassee.

[00:22:16] It was, and as I say, a Tallahassee takeover to just to say, hey, we know you're elected city officials, but basically we're going to start running your cities because this is your property taxes is what funds local government. State government largely funded by sales tax. We're largely funded by property tax, right? And that doesn't even cover police and fire for us. So we'll have to start looking at major cuts.

[00:22:39] And I think what we'll do over the next several months is try to explain to folks, if you're telling us that you love what you've seen over the last several years in terms of quality of life, you're going to see a major hit to that. But let me just go from there because one of the reasons Jacksonville has been so successful is because we have kept our taxes low over the years. We've been a great environment for business, a great environment for families, even with affordability issues.

[00:23:05] We're still the most affordable place in Florida that's a city of our size, right? So we're really being punished more than other cities because we've kept it so affordable. But I don't want to see that go away. So what are my options here? So we'll start with looking at the services we'll have to cut. And we'll have, if they do pass it, we'll have a year to deal with that. But I'm hopeful that it won't pass.

[00:23:27] And add to that, too, and just for those people who really haven't followed that, this homestead exemption proposal, which will be on the November ballot, it raises the exemption, the homestead exemption from its current level of $50,000 to $150,000 in 2027 and then $250,000 in 2028. I think most people expect that means that we're going to probably have to raise millage rates at some point in order to make up some of that $300 million we're going to lose.

[00:23:54] But more than that, and you said it correctly when you talked about the power grab from Tallahassee, most people don't realize that this proposal that's going to be on the ballot also restricts all cities from spending money on anything other than public safety, which, by the way, our sheriff's office is looking for a 7% increase in their budget, which is going to be kind of tough in this year. Education, where, in fact, we don't spend that kind of money on education because it's a separate entity. It's a separate entity.

[00:24:24] But infrastructure, but that's road, bridge construction, maintenance, and stormwater control, but not septic tanks, just using that as an example. Natural resources like flood control measures, pension and debt, of which we have a tremendous responsibility in that, and administrative costs for the constitutional offices. You didn't hear parks. You didn't hear libraries. You didn't hear health care. You didn't hear any of the things that we've invested in this city that have created this momentum that we're talking about here. Exactly.

[00:24:53] It doesn't include any of those things. So, but I will, if I can comment on the local rule. That's in our charter. We should have the ability. This is not small government. Constantly talking about big government. This is big government, guys. They don't want D.C. telling them what to do. We're elected. We are the government closest to the people. We should be allowed to run our own cities without interference from folks who literally were not elected by our citizens.

[00:25:23] And that's what I want people to understand, is that not only are you going to be giving up a mountain of services, but Tallahassee now wants us to come hat in hand to say, would you please give us whatever it is we're missing here? Which, of course, I'm sure they'll be just more than happy to do. With no strings attached. With no strings attached. But these decisions will be made by people who were not elected by people in Jacksonville. And that's... Who live in Jacksonville. That's what I'm saying. Or who live in Jacksonville. Who even understand Jacksonville.

[00:25:53] And so it is... I do not understand why this was rushed through in 24 hours without any sort of investigation into unintended consequences or anything else. And the fact that it is such a power grab from local governments should really concern our local citizens. And I hope it does. Have you talked to our delegation, our legislative delegation, to see where they sit on this issue? They voted for it. I know they voted for it, but now the question is, are you going to support it?

[00:26:23] Yeah, that is the question. What I've heard that many of them have said is that we don't like it. It's a bad bill. We hope it doesn't pass. But we had to vote for it. That's, you know... Blowning. Yeah. But that's... Look, we heard a lot of that last year when we lowered the millage rate here. My answer to that is, no, you don't have to do anything. You are beholden to the people, not to the powerful. But that's me. I think that's... How? A cop-out. It's a cop-out. Thank you for the words. But look, my hope is they won't.

[00:26:49] My hope is that I think a lot of them felt like they were held hostage to the budget, which isn't signed until July 1st. And there's a reason this didn't happen during the regular session, right? No kidding. So, hopefully, once that is done, we'll get some more straight talk out of the folks in Tallahassee about why this is really not a good thing. And I'm really hopeful that our mayors and our civic organizations and our police and fire unions and our chambers of commerce and all those things.

[00:27:17] I hope all those people will get together and, at the very least, educate the voters out there about this may sound good, but you're actually going to probably just transfer what you're paying from A to B. You're probably not really going to save any money here. And, frankly, for renters who make up about 40% of our state, their rent's probably going to go up.

[00:27:45] And they're not going to get a thing from this. Exactly. So, it's really not a good deal for people. It sounds great. And, of course, I know people need solutions for affordability, which we are trying every day to find. But this is one of those things that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And that's what this is. Wallet Hub recently released its annual study naming Jacksonville as the best-run city in Florida. Congratulations, Mayor. I was so excited to see that.

[00:28:15] But the state CFO comes into town with all his charts and tells us that Jacksonville is wasting money. Who's right? The CFO is starting with the softball. I'm just going to tell you. I got to tell you, Mike.

[00:28:33] It was such a shot in the arm to see that Wallet Hub ranking at the same time that the state CFO was here giving absolutely, zero specifics and talking about all the money that all of us waste. And, by the way, it's the council that approves the budget every year, just so you know that. But we run a lean budget here and have for many, not only years since we've been in here,

[00:29:02] but we have continued to run a transparent lean operation, which we continue to make leaner all the time. And I love that Wallet Hub said that we were number eight for budget per capita. And that's number eight overall in budget per capita. That shows that we are giving a good value to our citizens for what we spend. So there is no waste in this budget. And, look, we can always look to do better. I'm not going to say we can't do better. We'll always try to do better.

[00:29:28] But every single thing we do in this city is based on what's the return on investment for our citizens. And if the return doesn't look good, then we don't invest in it. But the truth is people want a good quality of life. And we are trying to provide that here in Jacksonville.

[00:29:47] And I think that we are finally to the point where we don't have to apologize for the fact that the Nashvilles and the Atlantas and that the Greenvilles and the Charlottes are passing us by because we are now the city on the move. And I think that we've done that at a great value to our citizens. We've always tried to keep that at top of mind. And so with all due respect to the folks in Tallahassee, take that. And we've talked about this before.

[00:30:17] There's over, what is it, over 100 people a day are moving to Jacksonville? It's a lot. And we have more than 17,000 a year that are moving into our area. Yeah. So it's, and look, our spend has not increased to that proportion at all. And we've kept everything except for public safety flat. So that has to increase because of the growing city, right? And we will continue to make sure we're taking care of our first responders because that's important.

[00:30:46] But everything else, we've really, we have really tried to keep it in the frame. And I think we've done a great job there, to be honest. I think we have. And I was really thrilled to see WalletHub say that. But thank you for the softball, Mike. I was only too anxious to get that little piece of news out at the same week that the CFO came down to tell us absolutely nothing aside from the fact that we were wasting money. Mayor, thank you so very much for sitting with us. Thank you. You guys are always so much fun to talk to. Thank you. We'll come back anytime you'd like. And we miss you, Mike.

[00:31:16] Maybe we should come do one of these on the farm one day or something. All right. Thank you all very much. And by the way, once again, we want to thank our donors, too, who will keep the lights on, the cameras rolling. And we'll be back again with you in the next couple of weeks. So stay with us. And thank you for joining us. Take care. Take care. log in.